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The British are Googling what the E.U. is, hours after voting to leave it

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Re: The British are Googling what the E.U. is, hours after voting to leave it

#291

Post by thomasahle »

dougmany wrote: post #232
dharma1 wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UK is a much more divided society than Switzerland, in terms of the base level of income and education. The median income in Switzerland is double that of the UK. Education is harder to compare, but you can't really expect the same level of discourse

I remember listening to a Ted talk where the speaker basically said, Get income inequality in check by whatever means and most of your problems go away.

Certainly large amounts of some kind of equality is needed for a democracy to work.

Re: The British are Googling what the E.U. is, hours after voting to leave it

#292

Post by Inthenameofmine »

partiallypro wrote: post #268
dharma1 wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UK is a much more divided society than Switzerland, in terms of the base level of income and education. The median income in Switzerland is double that of the UK. Education is harder to compare, but you can't really expect the same level of discourse

It's also very hard for a poorer or even middle class immigrant to move to a place like Switzerland because the cost of living is so high. This creates an environment of unanimity you wouldn't see in more diverse cultures like the U.S. or the U.K. I think that's largely why Switzerland and the Scandinavian states get accolades from U.S. politicians (not as much division.) But they don't seem to get that the cultures…

Well, it's not like the swiss didn't have their fare share of ethnic issues in th past. Keep in mind that Switzerland is linguistically diverse.

The difference is that because of direct democracy and every male being armed to the teeth, the government steps in and tries to reduce inequality. That way democracy works again. I mean, Jura used to have straight up ethnic riots.

Re: The British are Googling what the E.U. is, hours after voting to leave it

#293

Post by unprepare »

mikeash wrote: post #93
cool_penguins wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people in the US don't know how good they have it and what it means to be under a true abusive and police state.

I think a big chunk of Americans almost want it to be a police state, so they have something to fight against. It makes me think of Sam Altman's recent article about Trump. He said he was taking some risk by writing that, and some commenters here praised his bravery in taking a public stand on this. It's ridiculous. Bravery would be a prominent techie taking a stand for Trump. He's not going to suffer any consequence…

Are you suggesting if he had come out as pro-trump he would have someone knocking on his door at 3am to haul him off?

Re: The British are Googling what the E.U. is, hours after voting to leave it

#294

Post by jdminhbg »

bertil wrote: post #242
njloof wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Prop 8, for example. Or Prop 13.

Prop 8, officially titled Proposition 8 - Eliminates Right of Same-Sex Couples to Marry, was a statewide ballot proposition in California. On November 4, 2008, voters approved the measure and made same-sex marriage illegal in California. On June 6th, 1978, nearly two-thirds of California's voters passed Proposition 13, reducing property tax rates on homes, businesses and farms by about 57%. The Environment Prior to P…

The most salient and controversial facet to Prop 13 wasn't the immediate rate change, but the cap on increases when a property was continuously owned.

Re: The British are Googling what the E.U. is, hours after voting to leave it

#295

Post by saynsedit »

bitL wrote: post #207

"Hey, you voted against what we recommended to you, so now we will be telling you for the next 5 years that you are the stupid one that you don't even know what you voted against!" I don't get it - this is a prime example of democracy in action so why so much outrage? Do you rather want to live in technocracy/totality and allow voting "properly profiled" people only? "USSR is a great idea" anyone? Get over it, as muc…

Yep. Also: a single day of consequence is apparently enough time for "I told you so."

Maybe I should judge my entire life by what happens today.

Re: The British are Googling what the E.U. is, hours after voting to leave it

#297

Post by chimeracoder »

dharma1 wrote: post #204
Inthenameofmine wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We haven't figured this shit out yet. Kings anyone? How about the best wrestler gets to be in charge? ideas? As a Swiss citizen, I think the swiss system is very close to perfect in this regard. Sure, emotional and stupid arguments sometimes prevail, but most of the time the people make the perfect decision. Public discourse is most often also very rational, more so than most world parliaments. Irrational arguments…

The UK is a much more divided society than Switzerland, in terms of the base level of income and education. The median income in Switzerland is double that of the UK. Education is harder to compare, but you can't really expect the same level of discourse

> The UK is a much more divided society than Switzerland, in terms of the base level of income and education. The median income in Switzerland is double that of the UK

There's also the population size difference. London alone is larger than Switzerland, and that's not even all of England, let alone the whole UK.

Re: The British are Googling what the E.U. is, hours after voting to leave it

#298

Post by devy »

netcan wrote: post #82

I'm strangely moved by this whole thing. It's a pretty decent status check on where we are with democracy ATM. I'm not against democracy, but I do think we need to pay attention to what it can & can't do. On one hand, this has been a model of democracy. A primary election agenda and referendum. The phrasing of the question was simple, clear and unbiased. The "will of the people" won over the will of the ruling struct…

FDR summed it up pretty nicely in this quote:

     Democracy cannot succeed unless those who express their 
     choice are prepared to choose wisely. The real safeguard
     of democracy, therefore, is education.
And it seems that a lot of Britons requires exactly that: education before making a wise decision.

[1] http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/f/franklind402955.h...

Re: The British are Googling what the E.U. is, hours after voting to leave it

#299

Post by jessaustin »

Moshe_Silnorin wrote: post #205
netcan wrote: post #82

I'm strangely moved by this whole thing. It's a pretty decent status check on where we are with democracy ATM. I'm not against democracy, but I do think we need to pay attention to what it can & can't do. On one hand, this has been a model of democracy. A primary election agenda and referendum. The phrasing of the question was simple, clear and unbiased. The "will of the people" won over the will of the ruling struct…

My favored election procedure works like this: Every citizen takes a standardized test when they reach the age of majority, preferably Raven's matrices. This test would be used for scholastic and career purposes, aside from government. A representative body of 150 people is randomly selected from those in the top 0.1 percent every N years. The IQ test filters for intelligence, obviously. Random sampling serves as an…

Oh that's awful. The only saving grace of such a system, would be that it would be quickly violently overthrown by basically everyone.

Re: The British are Googling what the E.U. is, hours after voting to leave it

#300

Post by thomasahle »

semi-extrinsic wrote: post #192
Inthenameofmine wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We haven't figured this shit out yet. Kings anyone? How about the best wrestler gets to be in charge? ideas? As a Swiss citizen, I think the swiss system is very close to perfect in this regard. Sure, emotional and stupid arguments sometimes prevail, but most of the time the people make the perfect decision. Public discourse is most often also very rational, more so than most world parliaments. Irrational arguments…

In the British Parliament, there are lines which separate the MPs on the two sides. These lines are a bit more than two swordlengths apart, to prevent them from stabbing each other.

Wouldn't it be enough to have them just a bit more than one sword length apart? I suppose that's part of the reason for the London housing crisis.
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