Earlier quoted context omitted.
> as are any major acts Exactly my point. To become a major act (i.e. make money) artists need lots of artistic help. I know this is a brutal thing to say, but if you want to get a band out of obscurity, you're going to need help. Even Michael Jackson had Quincy Jones help him achieve his breakout album (Off The Wall) and was smart enough to go get the artistic help he needed. And Michael Jackson was one of those inc…
I hate to say it but Adele is a good example of an independent artist making her way. PS Don't let my oldest daughter know this I HATE Adele Happy Music and Sad Lyrics crap!!!!
Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks
291–300 of 313 posts
Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks
#292Earlier quoted context omitted.
> not some guy programming the guitars, drums tracks and bass and then does the vocals himself? Some highly regarded albums that use that exact process, all are five stars on Allmusic: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There%27s_a_Riot_Goin%27_On https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirty_Mind https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pretty_Hate_Machine Another that legend has it was recording the same way, albeit under different circumst…
Some of Van Halen's albums were done at home, in his home recording studio named "5150". I believe the "Beat It" guitar solo was also recorded there. Because there was no legal paperwork with MJ's mgmt., that was a freebie - to the utter dismay of his label.
Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks
#293Earlier quoted context omitted.
Literally anyone can put a streaming app into the major app stores these days and bypass all of this. Why are the Big 3 still in this chokehold position? Is the market failing, or do they actually provide valuable services that can't be obtained elsewhere? In either case: why is that?
Watch the movie "The Wrecking Crew". Essentially, the studio fixes the nascent tune penned by the artist, and provides studio musicians to play on the recordings. The band rarely plays, or even sings, on the album. The reason is simple, they don't play that well, or sing that well, and the studio musicians do. This is one big reason why bands/singers/artists need labels. They're not able to turn the lyrics on the bac…
Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks
#294Earlier quoted context omitted.
>you can almost always get a tone similar to your target Therein lies the rub. You can't beat real circuits and valves especially when you're cranking it loud for a gig. The difference between the (admittedly pretty amazing) VST's and the real deal is the difference between sounding good and sounding great. Touring a band is still expensive. So much so that it was the difference between going on extensive global tour…
> The difference between the (admittedly pretty amazing) VST's and the real deal is the difference between sounding good and sounding great. Honestly I think mixing and mastering each make a much bigger difference with recorded music. In my experience the "amateur aesthetic" usually comes down to these five things: 1) Timing 2) Tuning/intonation 3) Variation or lack thereof 4) Mixing 5) Mastering The old adage applie…
Caring about sound means caring about gear. I don't know any masters (and I know a few) that don't obsess over the gear they use in order to get the perfect sound. Shit in shit out. I think this also applies beyond music: Masters optimise at every link in the value chain.
Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks
#295Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well, I concede that HN is not the forum for in depth debate. I do think your image of who visits this forum is a bit narrow though. Two data points speaking against it, you, and me. In any case if you'd like an in depth economic analysis of how the Internet actually did change everything that might challenge your view you might appreciate The Wealth of Networks: How Social Production Transforms Markets and Freedom b…
I counter with some pop science: http://www.inc.com/john-boitnott/social-media-addiction-the-... http://ericadhawan.com/social-media-hurts-productivity/ http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/06/upshot/silicon-valley-has-... As well as some economic studies: http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2016/03/the... http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2016/03/pro... http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrev…
I guess the intention of the term was more inline with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_production_of_habitat "social production involves people at the community level relying on them collectively to identify, exploit and increase local capital as assets in the development process"
In practice the book is more about what Benkler calls "Commons-based peer production" though.
Which wikipedia takes as a synonym https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commons-based_peer_production
"Commons-based peer production is a term coined by Harvard Law School professor Yochai Benkler.[1] It describes a new model of socioeconomic production in which large numbers of people work cooperatively (usually over the Internet). Commons-based projects generally have less rigid hierarchical structures than those under more traditional business models. Often—but not always—commons-based projects are designed without a need for financial compensation for contributors.
The term is often used interchangeably with the term social production."
The book does shows its age in some respects though. At the time it was written p2p, open source, wikipedia and all the other institutions the book focuses on was rather new in the public mind, and perhaps treated a bit too much like magic. A sober follow up would certainly be a valuable addition to the discourse.
I think the biggest take aways from that book in particular is that
- There are other ways to organize human activity than market economies, even when rather large capital assets are involved in the production.
- People are capable of, and actually do, produce many things of enormous value, without any expectation of economic compensation.
- Current legal, cultural, and economic, institutions are somewhat at odds with this mode of production. Thus acting more to suppress (some forms of) valuable economic activity than enabling it.
Framed like this it certainly looks like an argument in a rather old political conflict. But I think that is the wrong way to look at it. It looks more like a synthesis to me, a much more inspiring proposition.
Edit: And Facebook is an interesting thing to study, it embodies both the good and bad parts Benkler talk about. There certainly is a certain amount of social production going on amongst Facebook users. At the same time most of the capital value produced is reaped by Facebook and used to in parts to enable the infrastructure as such, a good thing, but also to cater to Facebooks less amicable interests, essentially destroying the very habitat their users is working to improve.
Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks
#296Earlier quoted context omitted.
>you can almost always get a tone similar to your target Therein lies the rub. You can't beat real circuits and valves especially when you're cranking it loud for a gig. The difference between the (admittedly pretty amazing) VST's and the real deal is the difference between sounding good and sounding great. Touring a band is still expensive. So much so that it was the difference between going on extensive global tour…
> Therein lies the rub. You can't beat real circuits and valves especially when you're cranking it loud for a gig. Actually you could very much can, and especially in a gig, where acoustics are not as perfect as at home with expensive hi-fi speakers. You'd be surprised how many top artists, with huge followings, use amp simulations and plugins both on stage and on their productions. > The difference between the (admi…
Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks
#297Earlier quoted context omitted.
>you can almost always get a tone similar to your target Therein lies the rub. You can't beat real circuits and valves especially when you're cranking it loud for a gig. The difference between the (admittedly pretty amazing) VST's and the real deal is the difference between sounding good and sounding great. Touring a band is still expensive. So much so that it was the difference between going on extensive global tour…
As much as I want to agree with you nostalgia wise on the "real circuits and valves" thing, pretty much every industry magazine interview I've read with the top teir of guitarists basically say that "real amps" are for in the studio and when going on the road just use the Kemper[1] and nobody will be able to tell the difference. Honestly I would buy one of those in a heartbeat if I had the income/need/ability to writ…
Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks
#298Earlier quoted context omitted.
Just a side note, I saw the founder of Pandora speak and he said their mission is to create a middle class for musicians by making it easier to discover, listen, and support non-hit artists. I'm not sure if their plan had a broader strategy, but I felt the vision was at least admirable due to its mission beyond just firm profits.
I find that hard to believe when they have the largest listener database and the smallest "song" database. When compared against the competition.
Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks
#299Earlier quoted context omitted.
Pandora genuinely has a channel for independent music acts to submit material for play consideration. They are incredibly obscure about the process of whether they accept or decline to include specific music. But it does actually exist, so credit where it's due.
It sucks when you get declined - I had a seven-song album that I honestly felt pretty darn good about, was co-produced by a buddy that had an album on Pandora. I remember he was nervous about whether he'd get on Pandora and was relieved when he did, said he had an "in" at Pandora but wasn't sure it helped. He felt pretty confident mine would get in if his did - I submitted. They ask for you to pick one song from the…
Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks
#300Earlier quoted context omitted.
As a non-hit artist, married to a non-hit artist, and who's produced a bevy of non-hit artists, I can say that roughly none of a non-hit artist's income is likely to come from Pandora / Pandora discovery. At $0.0001/stream typical, Pandora itself cannot ever add up to meaningful income for a non-hit artist. Most of the income for the non-hit artist will come from that core group of committed fans who buy everything t…
> (Update: I just found a bit a data that states that Pandora accounts for ~10% of new music discovery which is a lot better than I would have guessed.) This sounds like a version of Russell and Norvig's Mengitis question. The probability you have a stiff neck if you have meningitis is 70%. But what is the probability that you have meningitis if you have a stiff neck? Keep in mind that Meningitis is 1/50,000 cases bu…
I'm not sure that's what the analysis is saying. I think the analysis is saying, "among discoverers, when discovery occurred, the discoverer was using [CHANNEL] with X% probability".