Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The first person to hack the iPhone is building a self-driving car

bloomberg.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

291–300 of 462 posts

Re: The first person to hack the iPhone is building a self-driving car

#291

Post by Xcelerate »

yaboyhud wrote: post #278
Xcelerate wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the funny thing about INTJs; they don't seem to get along well with each other. (*cue the preemptive disclaimer about MBTI being for entertainment)

Hotz is an ENTP actually so the two of them would get along extraordinarily well, assuming ego's weren't in the way...

Ah, indeed. I forgot the part where he mentions that he doesn't like living alone. You sure about the P though? His thoughts on his projects include lots of specific plans and he seems rather certain about his decisions (whereas P types tend to get caught in a quagmire of possibilities).

Re: The first person to hack the iPhone is building a self-driving car

#292

Post by zymhan »

analyst74 wrote: post #282
nradov wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The trouble with using neural nets for safety-critical real-time systems is that it's really hard to do the necessary level of validation. You can't accurately predict how the system might react in totally novel or unexpected situations. Which isn't to say that human drivers handle those situations well, but most of the time they don't do something totally bizarre or dangerous.

Humans totally do things that are bizarre or dangerous when in shock, but we've come to accept that as a personal responsibility and a price the society has to bear.

Exactly. People may swerve and over-correct, causing their car to flip, for example.

Re: The first person to hack the iPhone is building a self-driving car

#293

Post by orky56 »

michael_h wrote: post #82

He thinks machines will take care of much of the work tied to producing food and other necessities. Humans will then be free to plug into their computers and get lost in virtual reality. Well, that's an astronomically depressing future.

The more technology can seamlessly take care of the foundation of humanity's needs, the better. Leisure is a very new concept and only came about when humans were able to destress from not having to worry about their next meal or getting attacked by predators. Despite all the progress, much of humanity still faces some basic problems due to inequality and access to resources. Technology combined with some other cultural and structural changes can do away with those issues for good.

Re: The first person to hack the iPhone is building a self-driving car

#294

Post by foota »

nradov wrote: post #276
itchyouch wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With Neural Nets, training the AI to handle emergencies will be all about exposing as many emergency situations as possible. What's better about an AI powered by neural nets is that you could train an AI to go offroading. Get enough data and you've got a model for dealing with a given situation. Google's biggest strides with OCR, Voice recognition, Spam filters and other AI tech early on came from its ability to gath…

The trouble with using neural nets for safety-critical real-time systems is that it's really hard to do the necessary level of validation. You can't accurately predict how the system might react in totally novel or unexpected situations. Which isn't to say that human drivers handle those situations well, but most of the time they don't do something totally bizarre or dangerous.

Doesn't it seem possible that we could start testing the cars in a simulated environment?

Re: The first person to hack the iPhone is building a self-driving car

#295

Post by bpicolo »

ZanyProgrammer wrote: post #123
pjc50 wrote: post #29

The 21" monitor portrait-style in the car is fantastic. The testing of a hacked-together system on the public road is not. He probably won't kill anyone, but if he were to I suspect he'd get the book thrown at him in the way that everyday death-by-DUI drivers don't. Actually I'll go futher with this criticism: we've just seen drones being FAA regulated because users were unable to refrain from doing dangerous or nuis…

That screen looks like the mother of all distractions.

Which theoretically doesn't matter if the car drives itself.

Re: The first person to hack the iPhone is building a self-driving car

#296

Post by [deleted] »

ZanyProgrammer wrote: post #123
pjc50 wrote: post #29

The 21" monitor portrait-style in the car is fantastic. The testing of a hacked-together system on the public road is not. He probably won't kill anyone, but if he were to I suspect he'd get the book thrown at him in the way that everyday death-by-DUI drivers don't. Actually I'll go futher with this criticism: we've just seen drones being FAA regulated because users were unable to refrain from doing dangerous or nuis…

That screen looks like the mother of all distractions.

[deleted]

Re: The first person to hack the iPhone is building a self-driving car

#297

Post by webmasterraj »

bcohn91 wrote: post #46
jpfr wrote: post #37

Prototypical case of the 80/20 rule. He has implemented the happy case. But that system is nothing people realistically would want to drive their cars. What he did is impressive. But the results are not that outlandish for a talented person. 1) Hook up a computer to the CAN-Bus network of the car [1] and attach a bunch of sensor peripherals. 2) Drive around for some time and record everything to disk. 3) Implement so…

Why is the first comment on HN minimizing this truly impressive project? Of course it's not perfect, he's ONE person.

One person can build something that starts a revolution. See Woz/Apple.

The real issue here is that self-driving cars are probably the wrong place for that to happen in AI. At best, a solo project creates a crappy prototype where there was no product before (again, see Woz/Apple). The expectation for driverless cars is too high – they need to be 100% good, because your life is on the line, not 80% good.

What's the AI project that would blow people away, even if it was a shadow of a working prototype? I think that's the real question.

Re: The first person to hack the iPhone is building a self-driving car

#298

Post by analyst74 »

mturmon wrote: post #69
thedz wrote: post #4

> “I understand the state-of-the-art papers,” he says. “The math is simple. For the first time in my life, I’m like, ‘I know everything there is to know.’ ” Yep, he's still in his twenties.

I cringed. Saying "the math is simple" -- ouch. The writer must have been barely able to suppress his glee when that one popped out.

The math to implement a working neural net is indeed simple. Even if you consider all the commonly used engineering practices to ensure its correctness and improve its accuracy (like dealing with under/over-fitting), it's still not that hard. In the end, it's just doing multiplications over matrices, calculating derivatives and propagating values back and forth.

Now, to understand WHY the algorithms work, and gives you the result it claims to calculate, is quite hard, but that understanding is not required to implement those algorithms.

Re: The first person to hack the iPhone is building a self-driving car

#299

Post by pinkunicorn »

Aleman360 wrote: post #48
bcohn91 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is the first comment on HN minimizing this truly impressive project? Of course it's not perfect, he's ONE person.

Because this article reinforces our bizarre cultural notion that one person deserves all the credit for some innovation. Nevermind the ridiculous amount of engineering that was required to build all the tools he's using and the order of magnitude more engineering required to make this a safe, mass producible product. But nah, let's just praise the founder, allow him to get rich while we all do the dirty work.

Reminds of the quote from "The Social Network"

>> "If they had engineered a self-driving car, they would've engineered a self driving car".

You are just being absurdly accusative in your comment. That guy has done a self-driving car with nothing but tools available in the market.

Re: The first person to hack the iPhone is building a self-driving car

#300

Post by argonaut »

itchyouch wrote: post #260
jpfr wrote: post #37

Prototypical case of the 80/20 rule. He has implemented the happy case. But that system is nothing people realistically would want to drive their cars. What he did is impressive. But the results are not that outlandish for a talented person. 1) Hook up a computer to the CAN-Bus network of the car [1] and attach a bunch of sensor peripherals. 2) Drive around for some time and record everything to disk. 3) Implement so…

With Neural Nets, training the AI to handle emergencies will be all about exposing as many emergency situations as possible. What's better about an AI powered by neural nets is that you could train an AI to go offroading. Get enough data and you've got a model for dealing with a given situation. Google's biggest strides with OCR, Voice recognition, Spam filters and other AI tech early on came from its ability to gath…

Have you built deep learning models before? Neural nets are not magical boxes that you stick data into and instantly get great, generalized, robust models at the other end.

I have no inside knowledge, but I would be very surprised if Google's self-driving cars use neural nets as a significant component right now (which isn't to say there aren't people exploring its use).

Post reply on HN