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Larry Wall Unveils Perl 6.0.0

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Re: Larry Wall Unveils Perl 6.0.0

#291

Post by the-owlery »

muraiki wrote: post #86

I've found these resources helpful for learning Perl 6: http://learnxinyminutes.com/docs/perl6/ is a pretty good intro to Perl 6 if you just want to jump into things. http://www.jnthn.net/papers/2015-spw-perl6-course.pdf is more slowly paced but provides greater detail. Also, the people in #perl6 on Freenode are all awesome and are usually quick to help beginners unless they are in the middle of fixing some crazy bug…

Perl 6 has slides, IRC, a skim-through (learnxinyminutes), reference docs, examples, but alas no solid tutorial. This, IMO, will be a major problem if it persists until Christmas.

Re: Larry Wall Unveils Perl 6.0.0

#292

Post by guard-of-terra »

AceJohnny2 wrote: post #129

Sounds like a v2.0 with feature bloat. ""Any infix operator can be replaced by itself in square brackets..." Later someone asked, "In a world of user-defined operators everywhere, how do you define precedence?" And Larry pulled out is tighter() and is looser(), noting that Perl 6 even has customizable precedence levels. "You can add an infinite number..."" It's been said that most of programming is about managing com…

Haskell has custom operators too along with custom precedence, not too problematic.

Re: Larry Wall Unveils Perl 6.0.0

#293

Post by justinator »

chaostheory wrote: post #243
Zelphyr wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect a lot of people didn't take the time to actually learn Perl which is why there's so much "there's-more-than-one-way-to-do-it" Perl code in the wild. For whatever reason, I went the PHP route and I can say from nearly 20 years experience that PHP has the same problem even if it doesn't have the same philosophical approaches as Perl. Too many people who never actually learned the language producing near unmai…

If you have globals, nulls, gotos, or whatever dangerous (but sometimes useful) features (e.g. states); surprise surprise people will end up using them at one time or another. Perl is not the first nor will it be the last (imperative) programming language helps people fail too easy.

Double check me on this, but Perl 6 doesn't yet have a goto statement, nor does it have globals.

Re: Larry Wall Unveils Perl 6.0.0

#294

Post by MilnerRoute »

jlarocco wrote: post #197
steveklabnik wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At FOSDEM earlier this year, Larry gave the presentation they describe, and said that they were expecting a beta release at Christmas this year. So the general concept is legit, regardless of the site.

I don't see how that makes this look any more legitimate. The FOSDEM website says they had over 5000 people attending, so it's not like Larry's talk was a big secret. And Perl 6 has been right around the corner forever, so a fake "Perl 6 is released" page could seem timely and legit in concept at almost any time in the last 10 years. Even if it's true, if they want anybody to pay attention they should announce it on…

"craigslist is pleased to host Larry Wall Presents: Perl 6! Perl 6 has been a long time coming—some might say too long—but now here it is..."

http://perl6releasetalk.ticketleap.com/perl-tech-talk/detail...

Re: Larry Wall Unveils Perl 6.0.0

#295

Post by JoshMnem »

avar wrote: post #247
fibo wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can build Perl6 and try it right now if you want, see my [early Perl 6]( http://g14n.info/2015/03/early-perl6/ ) article for detailed building instructions.

These instructions show how to build the Rakudo 2015.03 release, 2015.09 is the current one.

The link I posted should install the latest version. http://codeselfstudy.com/wiki/Perl_6

Re: Larry Wall Unveils Perl 6.0.0

#296

Post by kbenson »

brudgers wrote: post #283
wycats wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's unnecessarily condescending, especially given that Ruby got `?` and `!` suffixes from Lisp, which far predates Ruby, and that Ruby itself is in many ways a descendent of Perl.

The goal of Ruby is to make programmers happy. I started out to make a programming language that would make me happy, and as a side effect it’s made many, many programmers happy. Especially Web developers. But Ruby hasn’t reached developers who work on embedded devices, mobile devices, controllers, things like that. I hope to make them happy too. -- Matz [1] Larry Wall's comment recognizes Ruby culture and acknowledg…

Well, Ruby also has quite a bit of lineage in Perl, so there's another layer to that as well. I think a lot of Ruby programmers that are unfamiliar with Perl would be surprised with how similar they are in some respects.

Re: Larry Wall Unveils Perl 6.0.0

#297

Post by dragonwriter »

steveklabnik wrote: post #132
mst wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Method modification is trivially done through "alias" and then just redefining the method in Ruby I don't know how to convert this into ruby then without needing to manually gensym a bunch of names: use Class::Method::Modifiers; sub foo { 2 } before foo => sub { warn "before foo 1" }; around foo => sub { my ($orig, $self) = (shift, shift); warn "around foo"; (1, $orig->$self(@_), 3); }; before foo => sub { warn "be…

You can do this. I tried to draw up a quick gist, but I am late, and I've been writing too much Rust... The basic idea is this: module Mst def self.included(base) # define a method on base using define_method named :before, which takes an # argument and a block # in that method, you grab the method with that name, using .method() # you then define a new method, named method, which calls the block and # then calls the…

"before", "after", and "around" method modifiers are pretty common in Ruby Aspect-Oriented Programming libraries (AOP has pretty much fallen out of favor for Ruby, but I'm pretty sure at least some of these are still maintained.)

Re: Larry Wall Unveils Perl 6.0.0

#298

Post by raiph »

nemo wrote: post #177
nandhp wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find that anything involving a lot of regular expressions is easier to write in Perl than in Python. Perl and JavaScript are the only two mainstream languages I know of where regular expressions are first-class citizens (compared to Python, where you need to do `re.compile(r'...')` and store that somewhere).

Regexes are really easy in Ruby as well (which cribbed a lot from Perl). There's an OO syntax, but also support for the Perl built-ins so this works fine in Ruby: print "match" if something =~ /thing/i Captures with $1 etc. are there as are named captures using the same syntax in the regex.

The regex sublanguages and engines in Ruby and Python are knockoffs of the equivalents in earlier Perls.

But this thread really ought to be focused on Perl 6.

In Perl 6 one can write:

  print "match" if something ~~ //
It looks superficially similar. But it's a scalable parsing feature, not a mere regex. That line of code will work when `something` is ten thousand lines of complex Perl 6 code and `thing` is the top rule in a grammar for parsing Perl 6 code.

Perl 6 is not Perl 5.

Re: Larry Wall Unveils Perl 6.0.0

#299

Post by raiph »

sofaofthedamned wrote: post #254
Mithaldu wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why?

So do I, for the same reasons. At a previous job perl was used everywhere. As a language, it's quite nice. CPAN is horrible, though. No staging/stable/whatever versioning, new modules requires updating versions of existing modules which frequently broke - it's just not something that's enterprise friendly. I tried but failed to find a company that would support and curate a subset of CPAN modules properly. Does one e…

For Perl 5 only deployments see https://stratopan.com/

The Perl 6 `use` statement supports :auth, :api and :ver adverbs for explicit control. See http://design.perl6.org/S11.html#Versioning for some detailed discussion.

Re: Larry Wall Unveils Perl 6.0.0

#300

Post by oldmanjay »

Mithaldu wrote: post #244
72deluxe wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With things like this, it makes me glad I write C++ (and that gets bashed enough!). I do not miss the days of maintaining a Perl codebase (and trying to decipher what on earth code was doing). This is insane.

Perl is a language sufficiently different from the main bulk of languages that one must make an earnest effort to learn it before one can read it. Your complaint is similar to someone declaring Japanese insane just because of the way its writing system looks like gigantic and erratic complexity to the inexperienced.

You pretty clearly have an emotional attachment to Perl, which is sort of lovely to see, but it's causing you to be undeservedly condescending to people who don't have that attachment, which is not lovely.
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