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How JetBrains Lost Years of Customer Loyalty in Just a Few Hours

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Re: How JetBrains Lost Years of Customer Loyalty in Just a Few Hours

#291

Post by btreecat »

cool-RR wrote: post #249
malka wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The price is not the problem. I simply do not want to rent the tools I use. I want to buy them.

It's absolutely about the price. If I told you you need to rent them, but the price for renting for the next 15 years is negligible, I don't think you'd have a problem with renting them. Now our only disagreement is on what constitutes "negligible".

No it is not about the price, it is about my dev tools needing to call the mother ship every month to make sure I am still a valid user.

Just keep the option for a perpetual license thanks. Even if it means increasing the cost, I am fine with that. I just don't want to rent my tools as a professional.

Re: How JetBrains Lost Years of Customer Loyalty in Just a Few Hours

#292

Post by cool-RR »

Daishiman wrote: post #281
cool-RR wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's absolutely about the price. If I told you you need to rent them, but the price for renting for the next 15 years is negligible, I don't think you'd have a problem with renting them. Now our only disagreement is on what constitutes "negligible".

No it isn't. I would pay twice as much as I did for PyCharm, but I want software that I can control which doesn't phone home to the mothership to see if I have the privilege of being able to use it for that month. I don't want to open the travel laptop I keep stored for when I'm away from home in an airplane or the middle of nowhere and be interrupted because I can't contact a licensing server or whatever such bullsh…

I take your point regarding phoning home. I also think that's a problem.

But really, you can't blame software providers. In the old days they'd all do the one-off purchasing model, and then they would all starve to death because people don't want to pay for software. So it's no wonder they're going for a model which is actually proven to work, which is a subscription.

Re: How JetBrains Lost Years of Customer Loyalty in Just a Few Hours

#293

Post by sangnoir »

dkhenry wrote: post #232
moe wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So previously $119 would buy him infinite years. And now $119 buys him a single year. Sounds like a downgrade to me?

no $119 would buy him one year of updates, and he could choose not to update in the future if he didn't want to. If he chose to update on a regular basis, then he would still need to pay $119 every year

Also, under the new regime, the moment he stops paying, the IDE stops working. Previously, when you stop paying,you'd be left with a working-but-outdated version. This is definitely a downgrade

Re: How JetBrains Lost Years of Customer Loyalty in Just a Few Hours

#294

Post by jordigh »

rebootthesystem wrote: post #229
jordigh wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not pay them to do it for you and also keep the ability to do it yourself, should you ever need it?

Because I have exactly zero interest in deviating from what I should be focusing on (my business, my product, my clients, my revenue stream) to go dork around with a text/code editor. Doing so, in the context of a real working business with clients, projects, timelines, deadlines and deliverables would be irresponsible if you can simply pay a company for which that product IS their product and business to deliver wha…

> Because I have exactly zero interest in deviating from what I should be focusing on

I don't get it. Even if you have no interest, why would you willingly give up the option? All other things being equal, wouldn't you want the ability to do it? You'll get a great product, you'll pay someone else to take care of it, and, should you ever want to fix it yourself or take it to someone else to fix it, you can do that too?

Why are you so aggressive against the notion of being allowed to do anything you could possibly want?

Re: How JetBrains Lost Years of Customer Loyalty in Just a Few Hours

#295

Post by sgdread »

rebootthesystem wrote: post #259

They need to do a better job explaining the licenses. https://www.jetbrains.com/toolbox/ I can't find anything that explains the difference between the individual vs. company/organization licenses. Are these still single-developer licenses? Why does a company have to pay twice as much as the individual license? That's just silly. I'll have my devs buy their own licenses and reimburse them. People are not stupid, you…

If you're reimbursing personal licenses, it's actually violation if EULA [1]

[1] https://sales.jetbrains.com/hc/en-gb/articles/200544871-5-Ca...

Re: How JetBrains Lost Years of Customer Loyalty in Just a Few Hours

#296

Post by steven2012 »

Frankly, I support this.

We need to pay more for software, not less. The Freemium model is killing products because you can't make any money from writing programs anymore unless you get a huge homerun. People only want to pay $0.99 for a program that took months of man-hours to write. $5.99? Fuck it, that's too expensive!

IntelliJ is magic to me. It's a wonderful piece of software, and I generally do not like Java. But it has transformed the entire experience.

Companies like JetBrains needs to be incentivized to write this kind of software, and innovate on it. They're not going to if they have leeches that use the free version in perpetuity. And if they change to a subscription model, then good for them.

If you use IntelliJ in a professional context, and you make a decent wage, a large part of it is because of IntelliJ, so you should pay up. $200/year is nothing compared to other things people spend money on like Starbucks, DirecTV, gas, etc.

Re: How JetBrains Lost Years of Customer Loyalty in Just a Few Hours

#297

Post by agentgt »

mdaniel wrote: post #269
agentgt wrote: post #203

Ironically I just switched back to Eclipse Mars from Intellij. Intellij is an awesome product and for certain development environments it hands down beats Eclipse... but if your just coding in a JVM language (Java, Scala..) Eclipse Mars is pretty decent. For me It really was never the features that made me want to use Intellij but the simple fact that shit never seems to get fixed in Eclipse version after version. Ec…

I have like 10 more bugs that I wish I could pay to have fixed. Are you aware of Bountysource? https://www.bountysource.com/ While I believe the audience size for it isn't super large, it's also conceivable that you could post a link to the Bountysource as a comment on the Bugzilla issue, at which point your incentive becomes more visible. I don't know if you were just using a number as an example, but $1000 will lik…

I'll try bountysource for sure but others have tried (with I believe other bounty services and in some cases paypal) and for some reason have not gotten traction. In fact one of the bugs I linked to (mac scrolling bug) some one offered a bounty but the bounty links seems to have disappeared. I'm not sure if the Eclipse foundation has a policy against it. I would imagine they would prefer you donate instead.

It would be interesting if there were some sort of custom white label bounty services for organizations like Apache and Eclipse where contributions are complicated in terms of regulations, licensing, donating, consistency and general policy... Apache and Eclipse don't even store their code on github so I would imagine they might have issues with a bountservice.

Re: How JetBrains Lost Years of Customer Loyalty in Just a Few Hours

#298

Post by mdasen »

jacquesm wrote: post #213

I would like to encourage everybody that does not like the new licensing scheme of JetBrains to band together and produce either an open source product that is as polished so it can be used for free or, alternatively to take this apparently huge business opportunity and run with it. I never quite understood what makes people that make 100's of thousands of dollars per year so cheap that they would balk at paying a fe…

It would be possible for people to fork the community edition (https://github.com/JetBrains/intellij-community) and try and rebuild the most popular ultimate features.

Re: How JetBrains Lost Years of Customer Loyalty in Just a Few Hours

#299

Post by wellpast »

JetBrains makes an astoundingly great product in IntelliJ -- so many features and integrations that just simply work. It is so rare to find a product this sophisticated yet elegant and reliable. I want more companies and products to figure out how to deliver software like this, with the same quality and power as IntelliJ. Then maybe I'll start complaining about pricing models, etc.

Re: How JetBrains Lost Years of Customer Loyalty in Just a Few Hours

#300

Post by mreiland »

mindcrime wrote: post #210

We use a subscription model at Fogbeam, but here's the twist: all our software is open source, and you're free to use it as you like, with or without a subscription. So why buy a subscription at all? Because you get the kinds of things big companies care about: certification, maintenance, support, indemnification, somebody to sue if things don't work, a vendor to shift blame onto if the shit hits the fan, a discount…

I would like to see the software contract that includes indemnification for the software.
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