Earlier quoted context omitted.
So maybe California has more immigrants than it can handle. I can't see it from New Hampshire. Anyway there are several times more people in prison now than in the 80's even though the crime rate has dropped, so I don't think violent criminals make up the majority of the prison population. As of 2006, 49.3% of state prisoners, or 656,000 individuals, were incarcerated for non-violent crimes. By 2010, drug offenders i…
If the prison system is working at all we would expect to see violent crime drop as the prison population increases. There's a profit motive as well but we have to remember why societies build prisons in the first place. Only 10% of California's prisoners have never been convicted of a violent crime. I doubt they all need to be locked up but I'm not seeing those prisons as being filled with peaceful drug dealers like…
Refugees Welcome
291–300 of 313 posts
Re: Refugees Welcome
#292Earlier quoted context omitted.
> So refugees are to blame for xenophobia, racism and violent attacks on themselves? Stop hitting yourself, eh? That’s absurd, completely and utterly. You are arguing with yourself as you are the one making that statement. > Basic human rights and human dignity should be on all our minds. Compared to that the problems you name are trivial matters. None of the things I listed, that are being brought in by immigration,…
I don’t think there is any truth at all to what you are saying.
So basically "You're wrong". Excellent way to refute their argument. I don't think you know much about the subject matter at all and just spouting a bunch of idealistic nonsense. So ghettos and no-go Islamic areas don't exist according to you, everyone is being wonderfully integrated throughout Europe, get real.
Re: Refugees Welcome
#293Earlier quoted context omitted.
One of the reasons I hate these kinds of discussions is that they are so boring and simplistic. The notion that "it's all the US' fault!" seems to always rear its head. I'm not a fan of a lot of US foreign policy, but people like Assad and Putin are 'not very nice people' to put it mildly, and have done more than their fair share to cause problems in Syria. Russia has a direct interest in Syria, BTW: https://en.wikip…
If you are curious about what the other side sees this as, this is a decent write-up - http://www.globalresearch.ca/why-syrians-support-bashar-al-a...
Re: Refugees Welcome
#294Earlier quoted context omitted.
rmxt I don't think there's much point debating with this guy. He's not interested in learning and sharing his understanding. Only interested in proving he's right and I'm not even sure he knows what he's trying to prove right anymore. He's finding anything he can to backup his argument, not sharing sources that he used to formulate his opinions.
Me and another commenter, already posted all the sources. It's you that are trying to see if they disappear. Here they are again in case your blindness allows you to see the facts against your incoherent opinions: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_the_United_Kingdom#Sh... http://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article108659406/Tuer... http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religi...
"More than 50% of these refugees believe that whoever leaves the faith of Islam should suffer the death penalty and that adultery should be dealt with stoning to death."
1. You've posted nothing about refugees. The German article talks about Turkish immigrants in general. The Pew poll talks about Muslims in their native lands. Since when are these terms equivalent terms?
2. Even if we take if((Muslims in the UK == refugees) == TRUE), your Wikipedia source explicitly contradicts your original statement. Only 36% of a small age cohort believes that people that leave the faith of Islam should suffer a horrible fate. That number is even less for Muslims outside of that age bracket. Regardless, the group "Muslims in the UK" is not strictly equivalent to "refugees" no matter how much you wish it to be true.
3. Lastly, you disregard all of the information that suggests immigrants actually feel like they belong to their new homelands. Yes, as you've shown, some Muslims have beliefs that Westerners might consider vile (e.g., death penalty for conversion), but the fact of the matter is that in both the UK and Germany the majority of the Muslims polled actually feel like they are part of the country.
I am not trying to make anything disappear: I've acknowledged and addressed every source you have posted, yet you cannot come up with anything more than "Muslims are scary" and "They don't assimilate" despite what actual research shows. Furthermore, you hypocritically suggest that we should single out Muslims for their religious beliefs, in the name of "protect[ing] the social freedom values we hold dear in the West." How can you support "freedom of religion," one of the foremost in the pantheon of social freedoms, while saying that you want to filter immigrants/refugees based on their religion?
In case you missed it here [1]:
"We conclude that Muslim migrants do not move to Western countries with rigidly fixed attitudes; instead, they gradually absorb much of the host culture, as assimilation theories suggest."
I get the impression that you don't step outside your comfort zone very often, much less interact with people of different faiths or races in your daily life. Before you put words in my mouth, I never once suggest we tolerate murder or stoning. People who take action on beliefs like that should be vigorously persecuted. Until then, I don't think it's much different than asking a Christian, "Would a non-believer go to Hell when they die?" That is to say, it's a hypothetical question of faith, not one of action. Feel free to disagree with that opinion, but at least acknowledge that in doing so you're running afoul of the "social freedom values" that you so dearly want to protect.
[1] http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1467-9248.2012....
Re: Refugees Welcome
#295Earlier quoted context omitted.
The amount spent on the bombs ($22k) or missiles ($110k) used to [possibly] kill enemy targets could rather easily pay to accommodate a few refugees long enough for them to either assimilate and find jobs or wait out the crisis and return home. All it takes is a commitment to finally throttle the military materiel manufacturing economy--that was ramped up during World War 2--back to a peacetime proportion of the budg…
Friend, I think you'll find that a proposal to deeply restructure whole economies and societies will not be well-received by people reluctant to accept smaller changes. Have you considered appealing to what your audience is likely to care about, rather than the goals you find appealing?
Rent-seeking behavior seems intrinsic to human society, such that any group of people larger than a certain size will be forced to deal with it in one way or another.
At this point, nothing short of a constitutional amendment is likely to put a dent in the military industrial complex. And that's not happening any time soon.
Complaining about it helps me to not lose my sanity. And that's good, because without my sanity, I might do something like endorse an armed revolution to reduce the political and economic influence of the military in the U.S. See, as a sane person, I know that doesn't make any sense. There is a right way and a wrong way to fight fire with fire; that's the wrong way.
And it gets a dissenting opinion out there, on the off chance that someone might stray far enough from their own echo chamber to see it.
Re: Refugees Welcome
#296Earlier quoted context omitted.
If the prison system is working at all we would expect to see violent crime drop as the prison population increases. There's a profit motive as well but we have to remember why societies build prisons in the first place. Only 10% of California's prisoners have never been convicted of a violent crime. I doubt they all need to be locked up but I'm not seeing those prisons as being filled with peaceful drug dealers like…
NH has immigrants but most of the immigrants have been white so far. My great-grandparents were born in Italy, and one of my great-aunts who was born here only spoke French until she was 14. There are still significant French-speaking groups in the southern part of the state. Lately my hometown has been taking in refugees from Bhutan. They don't speak much English but they are great neighbors and businesspeople. 3% o…
19% of high school graduates in the US are functionally illiterate[0]. Nationwide only half of black males are graduating at all. Half. We're already failing to take care of our poor. We're spending a very large amount of money trying to but it happens to be expensive.
If you go back to the start of this thread you'll see I've been consistent that there's a point where taking in more people is no longer a good thing. That doesn't mean I think it's always a bad thing, just that we should be honest that it can be.
[0] - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/06/illiteracy-rate_n_3...
Re: Refugees Welcome
#297Earlier quoted context omitted.
Friend, I think you'll find that a proposal to deeply restructure whole economies and societies will not be well-received by people reluctant to accept smaller changes. Have you considered appealing to what your audience is likely to care about, rather than the goals you find appealing?
What audience? I'm just some guy complaining about things on the Internet. Rent-seeking behavior seems intrinsic to human society, such that any group of people larger than a certain size will be forced to deal with it in one way or another. At this point, nothing short of a constitutional amendment is likely to put a dent in the military industrial complex. And that's not happening any time soon. Complaining about i…
So, friend, I ask you to stop and consider how you want people who encounter your lone voice in the wilderness to react. Assuming you care - perhaps you value having something to complain (and thus wish to ensure its continued existence) about more than you do persuading people that It Doesn't Have To Be This Way.
Re: Refugees Welcome
#298Re: Refugees Welcome
#299Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't want to pay extra taxes to help foreigners, I'll gladly donate money to charities. But the second my country started demanding I pay taxes to help refugees, all my income moved over to HK. And no, I don't have a problem with refugees, I'm glad to help them. I have a problem with the state _forcing_ me to help them.
Yeah I can understand your point. Not nice being told what to do or forced what to do. When did the UK start demanding taxes to help refugees btw? I'm not aware of this.
Re: Refugees Welcome
#300Earlier quoted context omitted.
Switzerland has been taking far more per-capita than other European nations. Understandably they recently tightened.
Could it be that you confuse refuges with expats and working immigrants? Similar to Mörgeli?