Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports • Hacker News Board

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#281

Post by Ar-Curunir » Fri, Jan 30, 2015, 10:50 PM UTC

toolz wrote: post #131

rinon wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having a valid reason why some activity is intrinsically bad (e.g. fast food) is very different from disliking such activities because they are "beneath" you. Sports are widely loved and not intrinsically bad. (I'd even argue that fast food itself is not intrinsically bad, but that's a different discussion) However, even expressing contempt for intrinsically bad activities can be interpreted as offensive and hostile.…

Sports are not intrinsically bad? Let's pretend a world without sports for a second. What do you see? I see a world where scientists and philanthropists are common household names. Where kids hero's are astronauts and firemen. I see a world where when someone makes a couple hundred million a year, they don't go immediately bankrupt after retiring because their industry wasn't intrinsically broken. That healthy panhan…

I'm pretty sure you're more than a bit deluded.

Sports unite communities in way few other human activities can. Plus, at least outside the US, interest in professional sports often inspires children to go outside and play, especially in the case of cricket and soccer.

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#282

Post by robbrown451 » Fri, Jan 30, 2015, 10:51 PM UTC

Ick. I remember when I was younger trying to enjoy following sports teams, and caring about who won a game. I really tried. Once I accepted that I just didn't give a crap about any of it, it doesn't affect me which team wins, and I don't have to pretend to care, it was like a giant weight lifted off me.

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#283

Post by dragonwriter » Fri, Jan 30, 2015, 10:52 PM UTC

ansible wrote: post #271

Glyptodon wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love playing sports and always have. But I have major issues with categorizing everyone who has issues with them as elitist. Some of us dislike them because they're destructive to society. I'm sure I'm not the only one who went to a high school where athletics were more important than academics, and not going to the football game was worth a couple nitpicked points off on your chemistry quiz or some teacher who bec…

I love sports, but every time I watch or support them I feel like I'm destroying civil society and undermining democracy and helping to destroy the last vestiges of effective public education. I'm not a big sports fan, but pro sports does serve a purpose. Sports in general is ritualized hunting / warfare. A civilized and less brutal version of war, but the roots are clear. The skills used are the same as our ancestor…

> Sports in general is ritualized hunting / warfare.

Ritualized, sure. Hunting / warfare? Depends on the sport.

Dancesport is a thing, and its assuredly not ritualized hunting / warfare.

> Sports is highly preferable to the small-scale skirmishes that frequently occurred in centuries past.

Sports is -- and has been for quite some time -- a frequent focus of the small-scale skirmishes much the same as those you paint it as an alternative to. I'm not sure its much of an outlet.

> It would be a lot more effective for society if we were pitting city governments against each other, seeing who can deliver the best services at the lowest taxpayer cost. But I'm not holding my breath for someone to set that league.

Actually, before those "small-scale skirmishes" were so frequently outbursts about sport, they were often outbursts between the backers of different political factions, ideologies, or groups striving to shape society (we still sometimes have those, too; sport may have kept the violence while removing the social purpose to a certain extent, but not entirely.)

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#284

Post by Ar-Curunir » Fri, Jan 30, 2015, 10:53 PM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #274

hnnewguy wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What other corporate products must I consume There is more to "sports" than watching them on TV. How about participating in them? It's good for your health, sort of like not eating McDonald's. > If I don't eat at McDonalds because I care about my health, am I unfit for socialization? There's a difference between "not eating" (or "not liking"), and "showing overt contempt" towards. So, yes. If you don't understand t…

> There is more to "sports" than watching them on TV. How about participating in them? The context here -- starting with the article, and followed in the thread prior to your response -- was participation in the culture of fandom of popular professional sports. Obvious, individual direct participation in sports is a completely different thing (and often a thing that competes with participation in fandom culture.)

No, there is a direct relation. At least outside the US, many many children are inspired to go out and try and imitate their favourite sporting heroes, and even if they aren't athletic they usually are included in the larger community and get to play and socialize. This is definitely the case with soccer and cricket.

I haven't seen a single case where being a fan has precluded children from going out and playing.

Perhaps as adults the situation might be different, but their are a whole host of other factors at play there, including health and time issues.

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#285

Post by electronvolt » Fri, Jan 30, 2015, 10:53 PM UTC

tjradcliffe wrote: post #164

voidlogic wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The disdain for working class culture among academics was part of the reason I choose not to pursue a formal higher education. I don't have statistics, so this is all anecdotal, but most Professors I have gotten to know well have a favorite team or sport etc. The reality you present sounds more like movies than real life. For example, I can see Dr. Epps from Numb3rs being snoody about sports in a way I have never se…

> I don't have statistics, so this is all anecdotal, but most Professors I have gotten to know well have a favorite team or sport etc. This has been my experience, up to and including a stint at a top tier American university where during the World Series I couldn't have a conversation with anyone, including my elderly Swiss-American academic supervisor, that didn't have a long preamble about how things were going fo…

I think even among those who don't necessarily care for sports, calling them 'sports-hating snobs' is often at odds with reality.

I grew up in an academic family. My parents were at the top of their respective fields, and their work, to them was as much a labor of love as it was anything else. I found that really very few things competed in their eyes with the fun/enjoyment of doing their job. Sports didn't really make that cut, but pretty much nothing but family made that cut. Their friends (and colleagues) seemed to be similar.

It was not so much about "Eew sports" as it was "Do I want to watch sports? Or would I rather read a book?" and "Read a book" won 99.99% of the time.

That being said, I did see a lot of disdain for sports among some of the more intellectual students at my university.

I'd be willing to bet that who acts like a sports-hating-snob can be predicted by simple signalling theory: professors/academics are unlikely to have their 'intellectual credentials/worthiness' questioned. They usually wouldn't need to signal "Disdain for sports" as a way to differentiate themselves from the non-intellectual working class. Being interested in sports also probably doesn't have any potential impact on other's perception of them, but probably doesn't benefit them particularly either--so you'd see academics with an interest in sports and academics who just don't really care, but you probably wouldn't see lots of academics decrying sports. (Outside of the critiques you'd expect of the NFL/NBA/FIFA/etc.--probably focused on the organizational ethics rather than the idea of sports as inherently bad.) On the other hand, in the case of students or middle class, non-professorial individuals, the differentiation between them and the working class is less immediately obvious to them and their peers, particularly on the things that someone aspiring to appear 'intellectual' would care about. (I think this also includes people in tech.) For them, decrying sports signals that they are decidedly not working class/non-intellectual, and alleviates the risk of being identified as such.

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#286

Post by robg » Fri, Jan 30, 2015, 10:53 PM UTC

oofabz wrote: post #244

mundizzle wrote: post #129

i always found Chomsky's take on sports to be quite interesting... "Take, say, sports -- that's another crucial example of the indoctrination system, in my view. For one thing because it -- you know, it offers people something to pay attention to that's of no importance. [audience laughs] That keeps them from worrying about -- [applause] keeps them from worrying about things that matter to their lives that they might…

This position taken by Chomsky is exactly what the article is denouncing, and I think Chomsky comes off as a smug jerk here. If Chomsky believes cheering for your classmates is stupid, then he must believe that we should be perfectly objective and treat everyone exactly the same. If you're a judge or President, you have an obligation to the public to act that way. But me, I'm glad I have the luxury of showing prefere…

We are a tribal species. Teams (and schools) are modern tribes.

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#287

Post by TulliusCicero » Fri, Jan 30, 2015, 10:53 PM UTC

Watching sports is a perfectly fine method of entertainment on its own, but I have two problems with it as a whole:

1. Dominance of sports culture is distracting to students in high school and college, and acts as a money sink. Playing sports is great, but I'm not sure why we subsidize it so much (talking about competitive teams here, not intramurals/PE).

2. The degree to which many people (obviously not most sports watchers, but a substantial minority) are obsessed with sports and tie up their identity in a given team is just insane. People will legit get angry about their team losing or having bad calls or whatnot, to the extent that sports riots or getting in fights because you liked the wrong team in the wrong place is a real thing. That's crazy!

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#288

Post by anextio » Fri, Jan 30, 2015, 10:55 PM UTC

FireBeyond wrote: post #240

timr wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"But you couldn't respond without an indictment of how brainwashed he is, in your opinion." I encourage you to quote that part of my comment. For bonus points, quote the part where I said I can't understand why people enjoy sports.

"That's nice. What other corporate products must I consume in order to be a validated member of your social caste?" Go ahead, say, with a straight face, that such a remark was not effectively a paraphrasing of what I said and was a non-loaded question asked with sincerity. To claim that you were not implying some corporate brainwashing in what you said is, frankly, disingenuous.

Your characterization of a product successfully marketed to people as "corporate brainwashing" whenever you don't like someone pointing out that a thing is perpetuated by corporate profit motives is also disingenuous.

I think the commenter was being a bit of an ass too, but I think he still has a defensible point, and it's not the absurd point that you're making it out to be.

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#289

Post by zep15 » Fri, Jan 30, 2015, 10:55 PM UTC

robg wrote: post #238

mundizzle wrote: post #129

i always found Chomsky's take on sports to be quite interesting... "Take, say, sports -- that's another crucial example of the indoctrination system, in my view. For one thing because it -- you know, it offers people something to pay attention to that's of no importance. [audience laughs] That keeps them from worrying about -- [applause] keeps them from worrying about things that matter to their lives that they might…

Funny how Chomskyan approaches to Linguistics and Syntax require their own indoctrination and belief system and "the most exotic information and understanding about all kind of arcane issues". Meanwhile, statistical approaches continue to win in the real world.

I think there's some truth to what you say about Chomskyan linguistics being dogmatic. But linguists aren't really playing the same game as the people in (e.g.) statistical machine translation, so it's hard to say the latter are "winning". Chomskyan linguistics is also just one of the various competing traditions in linguistics.

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#290

Post by vickytnz » Fri, Jan 30, 2015, 10:56 PM UTC

tl;dr I decided to take interest in something that lots of other people do so I could talk to them.

I remember reading an article about the British show Bullseye that pointed out that the blue-collar workers shown in the 80s episodes actually knew more about current events at the time than some educated people might today. It was expected as common knowledge and things you would talk about. These days, sport is still the key cross-section.

And I'm pretty sure that football transcends class in the UK these days (I know to be at least a little interested in Sunderland and NUFC games due to moving here, just as every Kiwi worth their salt knows at least a little about rugby).