Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

What I use instead of Google services

gabrielweinberg.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

281–290 of 307 posts

Re: What I use instead of Google services

#281

Post by icantthinkofone »

pyre wrote: post #273
icantthinkofone wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because something isn't currently happening doesn't mean it will either. You're ignoring the fact that, if Google started abusing your information, people would stream away from them in droves and Google is more than aware of that. Your monarchy analogy doesn't work either because, in a monarchy, you don't have the choice of leaving it other than leaving the country. With Google, and every other internet company…

> Just because something isn't currently happening doesn't mean it will either. I never said that there was certainty that it would. Only that it is possible. You can't hand-wave away possibilities with "it's not currently happening now."

Well, you're hand-waving that it can so it works both ways. Again, you're ignoring that people can walk away from this and nobody else is doing the exact same thing.

Re: What I use instead of Google services

#282

Post by twobits »

astrocat wrote: post #75

> "Like most people, I don't like to be tracked. I also am the founder of the search engine that doesn't track you, DuckDuckGo." It pains me to hear intelligent people talk about being "tracked" as something "bad" a priori. While there are certainly plenty of examples of abuse of knowledge, I tend to think of most "tracking" not as "stalking" but as "relationship building." Let me explain... Google is a service provi…

"The REAL issue is accountability."

You are very naive. Nature hates a power vacuum. Accountability, requires being able to enforce, if the other party is not accountable. Otherwise, it's just a matter of time before you are being used in some, or many, ways. The asymmetry of power between Joe Doe, you, and a huge multi national, assures that you can't enforce, and so you can't keep the other party accountable.

Re: What I use instead of Google services

#283

Post by imgabe »

seanflyon wrote: post #279
imgabe wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A threat to your safety or your freedom needs to be dealt with directly by eliminating it, not hiding from it. If you're envisioning a bad actor with the resources to compile and analyze a comprehensive log of your location, the simple fact that you use service A instead of service B is not going to do a thing to stop them if they're out to get you. You have far bigger problems on your hands.

What about a potential threat? You are not allowed to "eliminate" those. Maybe just don't give that potential threat more power.

"Potential threat" is an unbounded set. If you're going to guard against every potential threat you will not be able to spend your time doing anything else.

I asked because I was curious about what sorts of unique threats are presented by, for example, a database of location data. So far I haven't seen any that aren't already present via far simpler means.

Re: What I use instead of Google services

#284

Post by imgabe »

gwern wrote: post #274
imgabe wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And 100% of the evidence was that they met at the same pizza place? There were no other indications? In that case does it flag every single group of high school friends who regularly get pizza after school, or every group of co-workers who hit up the same happy hour a couple times a week? Sadly, that's not outside the realm of possibility, but that information alone is practically worthless in determining if someone…

> And 100% of the evidence was that they met at the same pizza place? There were no other indications? It was enough for the guys supposedly in charge of protecting us to waste a lot of time staring at graphs. And the 'threat matrix' is full of even more shit than that; I refer you to "Secret without Reason and Costly without Accomplishment: Questioning the National Security Agency’s Metadata Program", Mueller & Stew…

I agree that's a problem. I don't think the issue is that this database exists. I think the issue is that there are people conducting a witch hunt in the first place. If they are that bad at finding terrorists, they'll misuse whatever information is available to them. The solution is to not give people the power to conduct secret investigations and trials etc. in the first place.

Re: What I use instead of Google services

#285

Post by twobits »

victorhooi wrote: post #256
lubujackson wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And Google has already misused their trust with Google+ and the YouTube "real name" integration. As the integration becomes more complete, the ramifications of subtle changes become more problematic and hard to predict.

See, I don't get the whole furor over this. Most people just seem to be using it to join the Oh Noes, Google is Evil crowd without actually explaining how it negatively affects them personally. I've always just used my real name online - so instead of having an email address like sexy_asian_chick88@hotmail.com, I just used my name. It's a little less embarrassing when you have to give it to people, and I sort of got…

"so instead of having an email address like sexy_asian_chick88@hotmail.com, I just used my name. It's a little less embarrassing"

Nice, loaded example. Strange you didn't use "I'm a naive idiot" as an email example, to "explain" why using your real name would be better. ..And, btw: Sexy asian chick? Pics or it didn't happen.

"And really, what am I writing online that is so private and secretive that I need to firewall it from my actual identity?"

You may be boring, unimaginative, and a herd follower, but that doesn't mean everybody else is.

Re: What I use instead of Google services

#286

Post by twobits »

victorhooi wrote: post #264
DanBC wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great - it works for you. But you go further and claim that it must then work for everybody. > I've always just used my real name online - so instead of having an email address like sexy_asian_chick88@hotmail.com, I just used my name. It's a little less embarrassing when you have to give it to people, and I sort of got over those sorts of email addresses in grade 5. You can't see the value of bob@corp.example.com and…

You've just listed several groups of people who are discriminated against. I certainly feel for these people. However, this appears orthogonal to the issue of whether YouTube (a public forum) requires posters to use their actual name, and not a fake name. I mean, think about it - is a public forum the sort of place that you would want to be posting private content you don't want linked to you? If I was an oppressed p…

"I mean, think about it - is a public forum the sort of place that you would want to be posting private content you don't want linked to you?"

So, "subversive", against the status quo ideas, should only be limited to my neighbor? So that there is not enough exposure and they just die out? How cute.

Re: What I use instead of Google services

#287

Post by twobits »

icantthinkofone wrote: post #262
pyre wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because something isn't currently happening doesn't mean that it won't. You're ignoring the fact that the data isn't transient. It persists into the future, at which point these things can (and probably will ) happen. It's like arguing in favor of a monarchy just because the current ruler is just, competent and benevolent; while ignoring the possibility that the next ruler will be violent and vicious.

Just because something isn't currently happening doesn't mean it will either. You're ignoring the fact that, if Google started abusing your information, people would stream away from them in droves and Google is more than aware of that. Your monarchy analogy doesn't work either because, in a monarchy, you don't have the choice of leaving it other than leaving the country. With Google, and every other internet company…

"if Google started abusing your information, people would stream away from them in droves and Google is more than aware of that"

I, like you, also get a daily email notice of what google is actually doing and planning, every morning. Larry also, sometimes, attaches sexy pics of himself. /sarc

Re: What I use instead of Google services

#288

Post by twobits »

jusben1369 wrote: post #199
brave-new wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We live in the information age and information now is the ultimate power. Many people don't believe it, the same way that before the Civil and Crimean Wars not everybody believed that industry is the ultimate power of the industrial age. By letting Google collect enormous amounts of data about you, you are letting them have power over you. It can be used for pushing you to buy stuff against your rational will or for…

One can't live ones live today driven by an assumption that they'll be ruled by a totalitarian government in the future. Your mind is already trapped; you're effectively living in fear today that one day in the future you'll be living in fear.

"One can't live ones live today driven by an assumption that they'll be ruled by a totalitarian government in the future."

You may have heard it, but humans have this shit called "intelligence". It's some times used to predict future outcomes. (Yeah, I didn't believe this shit neither, the first time I heard about it. But please, do look it up online.)

Re: What I use instead of Google services

#289

Post by seanflyon »

imgabe wrote: post #283
seanflyon wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about a potential threat? You are not allowed to "eliminate" those. Maybe just don't give that potential threat more power.

"Potential threat" is an unbounded set. If you're going to guard against every potential threat you will not be able to spend your time doing anything else. I asked because I was curious about what sorts of unique threats are presented by, for example, a database of location data. So far I haven't seen any that aren't already present via far simpler means.

It does not take an unbounded amount of time to simply not give information to an unbounded set. In fact that takes no time at all.

The point is not that the world will end if we give away our location data, only that doing so has a non-zero cost.

Re: What I use instead of Google services

#290

Post by quoiquoi »

CalRobert wrote: post #261
cik wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I can oblige here then :) owncloud, owncloud, owncloud! It has CalDAV, CardDAV, and files support. There's even a rudimentary (though scary) online editor with support for openoffice. I use two-factor with owncloud, and happily share files, too. And... it supports an encrypted backend!. Now, if you're happy to host your own mail, you can also look at adding RoundCube. This can solve the Calendar/Contacts/Email/…

Another happy owncloud user here, though the funny thing is what I want it for is specifically NOT syncing - in fact, I don't like that it even tries to sync folders. I mostly want a media player/NAS/photo gallery/mail server (though I might just install a mail server separate from owncloud; I'd still want a webmail interface though).

> I'd still want a webmail interface though

A few ones to check:

* http://roundcube.net/

* http://rainloop.net

* https://www.mailpile.is/

Post reply on HN