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The desktop and the developer

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Re: The desktop and the developer

#281

Post by ktran03 »

girvo wrote: post #215
krakensden wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> after years of sub-standard drivers, laptops that don't turn on when you open them, cpu fans buzzing out of control, etc, etc, I'd rather spend my time doing things instead of screwing with things. You left in '04, this nonsense ended in '06, '07. Partly because no one is really changing the hardware much, partly because we have first class support from Intel now.

I run a MacBook Pro (Retina), and love OS X... but I completely agree. At some points, running Ubuntu/Debian on various machines I've used worked better OOTB with Linux that Windows itself did, with far less "find a random driver binary around the web somewhere, on a companies unmaintained FTP server, that probably no longer works with the latest changes in Windows" faffing around.

I hear this a lot, somewhat-technical people inserting 'macs are for dum people that don't know computers'. Truth is, a lot of mac users do know computers (obviously), and it's not that we can't mess with drivers and tweaking, it's that WE DONT WANT TO.

I moved away from Windows/Linux 6 years ago, not sure how things have changed, but I have no intention on going back to that.

Re: The desktop and the developer

#282

Post by madeofpalk »

ds9 wrote: post #140
chroma wrote: post #71

Many are baffled that OS X is so popular among developers. Likewise, many OS X users don't understand why someone would deal with Linux on a laptop. Those who do this are committing the typical mind fallacy[1]. Not everyone has the same preferences. One might as well be confused that some people like vanilla more than chocolate. I think many commenters in this thread could benefit from taking a step back and remember…

Thanks for saying that. It's remarkable that so many writers will declare a subjective preference as if it were an objective fact ("$SOME_UI is so ugly!"). Although I also agree with "remembering just how unimportant this arguing is", I'll illustrate by providing a counterexample to the Fine Article's idea that OSX is "an aesthetically pleasing OS". My idea of an esthetically pleasing UI is one with text labels inste…

> I'd also like a laptop with the keyboard in front and the trackpad behind, but apparently I'm a freak or something.

Like the Acer Aspire R7?

http://www.theverge.com/2013/5/31/4380132/acer-aspire-r7-rev...

Re: The desktop and the developer

#283

Post by FeloniousHam »

harel wrote: post #33

I just don't get how OSX is so popular with a developers. It is essentially a "user's" OS. Not a developer one. Its geared towards, and hides a lot from, the common user. Setting up OSX with all the dev stack is usually a painful experience requiring a few workarounds (I see this with colleagues of mine who wanted a Mac over a Thinkpad with Linux). The keyboard as well is anythign but developer friendly. Where are th…

I was all in for Ubuntu on my home machines (Windows at work, of course), but OSX was a revelation. For core development stuff, Ubuntu is great-- I'm still a fan of Unity, apt-get, build-essential-- but as soon as I want/need to dabble in human-level tooling (basically anything with graphics), Linux falls down. The apps just aren't there, and if they are, they're not well maintained. Even the most actively developed Free apps just aren't as aesthetically pleasing in either the UI or in performance.

OSX makes me happy. The apps are considered and cared for by their makers, largely I believe, because they get paid for their time and ingenuity.

Libre works great for APIs, not so much for Ape-y eyes :).

Re: The desktop and the developer

#284

Post by panzerboy »

eyko wrote: post #66
Swizec wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who's been using OSX full-time for the past two years, and using it in conjuction with a Linux-based desktop computer for the previous ~5. Yes. Linux is insanely better for development. But OSX is just passable enough that the form-factor of an Apple laptop wins out and I can work. I don't want to go back to using two computers and OSX is _much_ better at everyday non-developer stuff than any Linux I've ev…

> Pray god that I never have to wipe my hard drive though. Getting all the random libraries and whatnot that I've accumulated over the years would be a pain in the arse. Something there doesn't sound right (and brings up questions about how do you even manage so many random libraries and whatnot). Dependency and package management isn't that difficult and when I wipe my hdd/ssd it usually takes me some 30 minutes to…

I do the same but with Ansible.

Re: The desktop and the developer

#285

Post by kelseyfrancis »

kayoone wrote: post #266
kelseyfrancis wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Dell XPS 15 [1] weighs around 4.5 pounds, has a higher-resolution display than a Retina MacBook Pro, a comparable i7 quad-core, 16 gb ram, etc. It also has excellent Linux support (source: I have one that I installed Fedora 20 on and everything worked without any tinkering). There don't seem to be any other options comparable to a MacBook Pro for hardware. In particular, very, very few laptops that aren't enormou…

I heard many people complain about coil whine in these models. Also does this support GPU switching under Linux and does sleep/hibernate etc work without issues ?

I've haven't experienced the whine myself, but I've seen those complaints too.

GPU switching is the one thing I haven't really tried yet. I've stuck with the Intel chip. I've read that people have had success with Bumblebee. In fairness, I've also had a MacBook Pro with Fedora 19 on it, and GPU switching didn't work there either.

Suspend/resume work without issue, but I haven't installed the proprietary NVIDIA drivers yet, and those have a tendency to mess up resume (at least it did on my MBP w/ Fedora 19).

I _imagine_ NVIDIA drivers + suspend/resume works just fine with Ubuntu. Any "non-free" drivers in Fedora are pretty iffy in my experience. Usually after installing the NVIDIA drivers from RPM Fusion GDM won't even start, or you have to edit the GRUB menu item to blacklist nouveau, or any number of things the package should theoretically take care of for you. I've not had that problem with Ubuntu (just other problems, like a UEFI install on say a MBP, something Fedora does flawlessly).

These are the kinds of reasons people just use Windows or OS X I guess.

Re: The desktop and the developer

#286

Post by Igglyboo »

sourkremlin wrote: post #208
Igglyboo wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know a single person that uses windows for development other than people writing windows specific(.net) software, judging by the overall vibe on HN and /r/programming I'd assume this is a general trend.

Something I've noticed in some large cross-platform (Windows, Linux) C++ projects I've been involved in is that the developers, given the choice, will just as often choose to work in Windows. Visual Studio is an incredibly powerful IDE.

This is something I'd agree on, Visual Studio is amazing, but not good enough for me to switch to windows over. IMO all of the stuff jetbrains makes is almost as good as VS anyway.

Re: The desktop and the developer

#287

Post by tim333 »

Just as an aside after reading this I went to debug an android app. Instructions for connecting your phone:

OSX: "If you're developing on Mac OS X, it just works. Skip this step."

Ubuntu: the instructions run on for 59 lines including things like 'Use this format to add each vendor to the file: SUBSYSTEM=="usb", ATTR{idVendor}=="0bb4", MODE="0666", GROUP="plugdev" '

I guess if you use an non Ubuntu linux you kind of figure it out on your own. I quite like the OSX way. (http://developer.android.com/tools/device.html)

Re: The desktop and the developer

#288

Post by jyu »

rdl wrote: post #230

Plenty of people moved from Linux and BSD to OSX for a wide variety of reasons, especially for laptops. I'd consider a non-mac workstation for serious desktop use, and OSX for servers is essentially insane (I actually have one mini in colo though, in addition to linux and freebsd servers). I've been using Unix OSes since ~1990, and a laptop since mid 1990s running Linux and FreeBSD. 90% of what I do is in terminal an…

I too yearn for the 32-64GB Mac laptop. Usually I'm in front of an iMac, spinning up AWS instances for parallelizable and time insensitive tasks. What kind of setup do you typically use?

Re: The desktop and the developer

#289

Post by green7ea »

sanderjd wrote: post #144
winter_blue wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Please do link me to a $1200 non-Mac laptop with a high-res 15" screen, thin form factor, and nice trackpad. The cheapest high-res/HiDPI/Retina 15" MacBook costs $1999, not $1200. The baseline 13" rMBP costs $1199 after the education discount though[1]. [1] By the by, if you order from the Apple Online Store in the US, you can get the student discount no matter what. There's no verification of any kind (like to pos…

Whoops, I did actually mean 13". But also: I did buy last year's 15" model new-in-box for $1200 - there seems to be a pretty fast price drop-off, perhaps because Mac buyers really do have an above average focus on latest-and-greatest. Edit to add: My point is really not about the price but that taking away the "brand status" as a factor or even making it a confounding factor, Mac laptops completely own the "nice-for-…

The Lenovo Yoga 2 Pro comes to mind. Same price, high res screen, thinner than a MBA, better keyboard, does the whole yoga thing.

Re: The desktop and the developer

#290

Post by sitkack »

blumentopf wrote: post #94
davexunit wrote: post #20

I've used OS X at work for the past 2 years and I completely disagree that OS X is nice for developers. I've had a lot of issues that I wouldn't have had if I was using a GNU/Linux distro like Debian. Major issues with GCC after certain updates, outdated GNU software like bash, brew is barely acceptable as a package manager (can't hold a candle to dpkg/apt), and I have to go to websites to get the installers for most…

This. Tweakability isn't the issue. Simply catering to pro users is the issue. I moved from Linux to OS X in 2004 and am now on the fence about moving back. When OS X came out, Steve Jobs promised an OS that would cater to pro users as well as amateurs. He literally said so in one of his keynotes. But around 2006, Apple started focusing on the upcoming iPhone and downprioritized OS X development. Nowadays it's all ab…

You could use `ipfw` to squelch all network traffic, you probably already use linux firewalling to stop the same behavior.

    networksetup -setv6off 'Ethernet'
    networksetup -setv6off 'Wi-Fi'
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