Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The Brutal Ageism of Tech

newrepublic.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

281–290 of 361 posts

Re: The Brutal Ageism of Tech

#281

Post by fecak »

randomdata wrote: post #120
fecak wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A decision to specialize in mobile in 2009 would probably have even worked out for a 60+ engineer if they were good at it. The best way to combat ageism is to stay technically relevant. Good decision.

> The best way to combat ageism is to stay technically relevant. As I get older, I find that is easier said than done. I still spend quite a lot of time learning new things, but I've become less interested in learning things that are immediately marketable. Learning yet another framework that is marginally different than the one I used on the last project is not the interesting pursuit it once was. At this point I wo…

I think just showing that you are still learning makes you relevant. Displaying some level of intellectual curiosity will get attention, even if it isn't the exact framework or new shiny thing that is the latest flavor. Also shows that you can pick up new things.

Re: The Brutal Ageism of Tech

#282

Post by RogerL »

benihana wrote: post #273
Dale1 wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Point 1 == Nail hit firmly on head! I'm 31 and far more streetwise than I was 10/15 years ago. Youngsters tend to get excited quickly and you can make them do all sorts of cool things, working for free, no contracts, perpetual internships etc etc. It seems everyone these days is a "founder" of something. I own sites that do things these youngsters can't do (Turn a profit) but I've never, not for one moment ever thoug…

I'm also 31, and I don't think this article is talking about us. I think it's talking about people who are 15-20 years older than us. I do agree that I am way more experienced, knowledgeable, and have a much more healthy and mature perspective on business and software engineering than I did when I was 22.

It is talking about people with kids and such - you know, 30-40. Basically, you, very shortly, if not already. The article specifically called out people with kids, and pointed out that at the age of 30+ VC starts being skeptical of the chances of backing the founder.

You are a year or two from being 'old' in this mad market.

Re: The Brutal Ageism of Tech

#283

Post by leothekim »

cookiecaper wrote: post #279
leothekim wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

s/older/experienced/. Grey hair does not engender wisdom.

There's a strong correlation that shouldn't be hard to figure out. You're right that it's not necessarily equivalent, but I don't think anyone posited that gray hair automatically equals masterful programming ability.

It's important to be explicit about this. If you're contradicting negative generalizations and stereotypes about age, then you shouldn't counter with another generalization.

Re: The Brutal Ageism of Tech

#284

Post by nilkn »

I think the greatest thing about older developers is that they understand bureaucracy and office politics. The truth is that there's more to being a great developer than just writing code with your headphones on. Some of my bigger productivity gains have been from learning how to hustle in the office. That said, I'm still pretty young and I feel I have a considerable amount to learn, both technically and professionally.

As an example, during my first year out of college, I often found myself waiting upwards of a week for someone else to get me something I needed to complete one of my tasks. I didn't know the right way to prod a coworker--or in this case, actually, boss--to get you what you need so you can get stuff done. Examples like that abound.

Re: The Brutal Ageism of Tech

#285

Post by kstenerud »

SomeCallMeTim wrote: post #155
aortega wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not so much. I'm 35, started programming at about 10 in my TI99-4A, typing games from magazines, etc. the usual stuff. No way a 40 year old guy have more experience than me in general programming, unless he was working at Microsoft or IBM at that date, and surely they are about less than 10000 of those guys in the world. Of course there are 40 year olds that may have way more experience than me in a specific language…

>No way a 40 year old guy have more experience than me in general programming I started programming toys in 1979. [1] I started programming "modern" computers in 1981. I was selling games when I was 15 in 1983. My "real" professional experience started in 1987 with a contract to write a video game from a major publisher. So yes, it's not hard for someone to have "more experience" than you in general programming. [1]…

OMG THANK YOU! I had one of these as a kid, but couldn't remember the name! We used to have competitions to have it go from the living room, out to the kitchen, through the table legs, and back again. I was 5 years old, and wouldn't have another programming opportunity until 3 years later when we got a C64.

Re: The Brutal Ageism of Tech

#286

Post by jes5199 »

yeukhon wrote: post #217
bsder wrote: post #201

There are two perceived problems with hiring older programmers: 1) Older programmers won't put up with bullshit. They expect to have reasonable goals, be listened to, be compensated fairly, and have a reasonable schedule. They've been around the block enough to identify bullshit and will leave when it starts getting too high. 2) Older programmers really don't always understand the "cool" social crap that teenagers ar…

What is this social crap we are talking about? Are you referring to social network applications?

My perception is that there are a lot of apps right now designed to solve the problem of "please make it less awkward for me to meet strangers." Bizarrely, they're converging on the Tinder interaction - just look at their faces and no other information and note whether you approve of them - WHICH IS WHAT YOU COULD HAVE DONE IN THE BAR ALREADY WITHOUT YOUR PHONE.

Re: The Brutal Ageism of Tech

#287

Post by vonmoltke »

fecak wrote: post #74
vonmoltke wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That makes a presumption that someone who spent 25 years at the same employer stagnated. I spent nearly 10 years at my first employer, but in that time I had three different positions. On my resume I have started listing it as three separate positions, which seems to confuse some people but is an accurate portrayal of my time there. I do not think one employer == one role is an accurate assumption and that "10 jobs o…

I'm not saying the assumption is fair, and there are certainly exemptions. I'm saying that startups tend to assume that if you've been at the same place for 25 years, there is a reason for that, and the reason is usually negative. When you say 'people like me', keep in mind that just because you have had three different roles at one company in itself doesn't mean you didn't stagnate, just as the person with ten jobs…

Yes, and I think that bias is (quasi-)ageism.

I'm certainly not saying that someone who has held multiple positions has not stagnated, either, simply that fundamentally the only difference between me and someone who worked for three different companies but had the same roles as I did is merely the company nameplate. To make different assumptions based solely on that is illogical.

Re: The Brutal Ageism of Tech

#288

Post by nickbauman »

I'm over 40. I feel like I'm doing the best work of my life right now. Maybe that's an indictment of my past work, but until the last few years, I wasn't doing anything with ML, with AI/Planning or Operations Research, Expert Systems, hardware-software interfaces etc. Now I'm doing those things. I was doing LoB software mostly: moving data from a database into a screen and back again.

In order to do new kinds of work, I had to turn down jobs for the boring stuff I knew I could do. I chose to work on stuff that scared me.

So: work on things that scare you. Things that you find mysterious. Things where the machine teaches YOU, not the other way around.

Sooner than later.

Re: The Brutal Ageism of Tech

#289

Post by super_mario »

Agism? I don't think so. I have over 20 years of "real world" (who counts any more) experience (cut my teeth in 6502 assembler at age 10) and the real truth is that I am too expensive, and not too old for majority of companies out there let alone startups.

Take your average 20 something year old hot shot highly sought after programmer, well I make 3 times as much as him. As soon as that little tidbit of information is out of the bag, I'm suddenly "too old" or would not be "good cultural fit" for the budding startup.

Sad thing is, it's true. Most of the companies these days are not really solving hard core problems any more and don't really need someone of my level of expertise and skills (how many are in the guts of an OS, databasse or compiler, or need their server performance insanely tight). Most are hoping to disrupt Facebook or Twitter, and for that "social" stuff kids who don't know what they are worth are better suited anyway.

Re: The Brutal Ageism of Tech

#290

Post by delinka »

"For as long as he can remember, all he ever wanted to do was to build a start-up that would go public..."

Me, too! I just don't pout publicly about my sad fortune. Instead I take a job, using my decades of experience, doing interesting things.

Post reply on HN