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Choosing Hong Kong Is a Brilliant Move by Edward Snowden

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Re: Choosing Hong Kong Is a Brilliant Move by Edward Snowden

#281

Post by jessaustin »

anigbrowl wrote: post #122
jacquesm wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saying that Snowden will receive a fair shake today is also pretty ridiculous.

I don't think so. right now Major Nidal Hasan (the army psychiatrist who, by his own admission, perpetrated a small massacre at Fort Hood, Texas in 2009) is having a trial right now and acting as his own defense counsel. Predictably, he's making a hash of it and is likely to receive the death penalty because his only offered defense, which has been rejected as a matter of law, is that he was acting to protect the liv…

I'm pretty sure TPTB exactly predicted the events of Hassan's trial. It has gone forward in this manner because this is the manner they desire. It's not like Hassan was held for months in solitary without the luxury of clothing.

Re: Choosing Hong Kong Is a Brilliant Move by Edward Snowden

#282

Post by jessaustin »

Kylekramer wrote: post #137
toyg wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a common attack on activists: "if you're really interested in your fellow man, you must act like a saint hermit. Anything less than that is unacceptable and means you're wrong on " How is the problem (that the NSA can record everything we do online) related to a young man's attempts to save his skin? Would the NSA stop spying on us if it turned out that Snowden was a buddhist monk? Would the NSA stop spying o…

It isn't fair that activists are held to higher standard, but it is true. If you want to change the world, the world expects more of you. This isn't new. Occupy Wall Street may have had a point, but they allowed themselves to be marginalized due to more superficial aspects of the movement. If Snowden had been "crucified on a hill near Washington" (or even just stayed anonymous), it wouldn't have ended the NSA's spyin…

It may be too early to dismiss Occupy as having been "marginalized". Sure they're not camped out anymore, but camping was never really one of their top priorities. Who can say that the example of Occupy didn't inspire Snowden to a degree?

Re: Choosing Hong Kong Is a Brilliant Move by Edward Snowden

#283

Post by jessaustin »

jivatmanx wrote: post #30
spitx wrote: post #6

CBS' Bob Schieffer on Snowden's junket: "For one thing, I don't remember Martin Luther King, Jr., or Rosa Parks running off and hiding in China. The people who ran the civil-rights movement were willing to break the law and suffer the consequences." "That's a little different than putting the nation's security at risk and running away." "What I see in Edward Snowden is just a narcissistic young man who has decided he…

MLK was protected by his fame. Rosa Park's act was entirely symbolic. Ellsberg was protected by the fact that he had given the information to a number of extremely influential Senators; something I'm sure Snowden would have loved to have done, if he was lucky enough to have that kind of access, and if there were still such thing as a senator who is honest and cares about the constitution. (Or if "journalists" still b…

...he had given the information to a number of extremely influential Senators...

I guess the NSA learned from that episode; apparently they preemptively told every member of Congress about all the awful things they've been doing recently. Of course the secret setting in which they admitted these transgressions was designed to put the legislators at a disadvantage. Multiple Representatives have denied ever understanding what the briefings were about.

Re: Choosing Hong Kong Is a Brilliant Move by Edward Snowden

#284

Post by [deleted] »

Karunamon wrote: post #260
joe_the_user wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but these protest did happen and I'm assuming then the measures were defeated. That is something and one can be at least doubtful that this would happen in the US. And it's not because the US government isn't doing some pretty horrible things, as we can see.

Uhh.. wasn't massive popular outcry what got SOPA killed?

[deleted]

Re: Choosing Hong Kong Is a Brilliant Move by Edward Snowden

#285

Post by wilfra »

ssafejava wrote: post #232
jimmaswell wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yeah, but what's the pay like? pay vs price is a lot more meaningful of a comparison than just price.

The pay is awful for the average Hong Konger compared to cost of living. Minimum wage is $30/hr, which is ~$3.75 USD. That doesn't sound bad for China until you factor in rent; 800 sqft apartments cost upwards of HK$20,000 - HK$30,000/mo. Hardly affordable on HK$60k/yr, and many young professionals live with family.

"That doesn't sound bad for China"

In case anybody doesn't know - HK is nothing like (mainland) China in terms of costs of living, quality of infrastructure or the standard of living. It's the Asian version of NYC or London. Really expensive, really high class, really good infrastructure etc. Basically nothing you associate with the word 'China' other than lots of Chinese people.

Re: Choosing Hong Kong Is a Brilliant Move by Edward Snowden

#286

Post by rayiner »

jessaustin wrote: post #276
rayiner wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No problem, as long as you're not an ethnic or religious minority.

You're right, the USA has always been a wonderful place for those folks.

It's a hell of a lot better in the U.S. for these folks now than it is in China now.

Re: Choosing Hong Kong Is a Brilliant Move by Edward Snowden

#287

Post by kragen »

kragen wrote: post #226

Author says, "Budding spies and others of a paranoid nature can buy a couple of those SIM cards to swap in and out of their (unlocked) phones for $10 in any 7-11, no registration, no questions asked (try doing that in India or Argentina!)" I don't live in India, but I do live in Argentina, and there are guys selling SIM cards on the subway and outside the train stations for, I think, AR$5, which is about US$0.76. No…

Update: I asked the blind guy selling SIMs on the subway today how much they cost. The price has gone up to AR$10, which is currently about US$1.20.

Re: Choosing Hong Kong Is a Brilliant Move by Edward Snowden

#288

Post by jessaustin »

rayiner wrote: post #286
jessaustin wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right, the USA has always been a wonderful place for those folks.

It's a hell of a lot better in the U.S. for these folks now than it is in China now.

The premise of this thread is that China is going to solve three giant intractable problems. That might take some time. When they're done, will over 40% of our male prison population still be black?

Re: Choosing Hong Kong Is a Brilliant Move by Edward Snowden

#289

Post by wilecoyote »

jfoutz wrote: post #47
spitx wrote: post #6

CBS' Bob Schieffer on Snowden's junket: "For one thing, I don't remember Martin Luther King, Jr., or Rosa Parks running off and hiding in China. The people who ran the civil-rights movement were willing to break the law and suffer the consequences." "That's a little different than putting the nation's security at risk and running away." "What I see in Edward Snowden is just a narcissistic young man who has decided he…

It's a tough spot. Now days, you need at least 1.5 million to defend yourself against a federal prosecution, after the feds have seized your assets. Very few people can do that. Without the cash, it would turn into "guy did some stuff, then went to jail".

This is easy to forget in the abstract, but never in actual practice (Aaron Schwartz for sure, but probably a vast majority who've encountered the US court system in any non-trivial way).

It is, in my mind, akin to spending / political contributions in politics. Money has an essential role to play but should not be allowed to corrupt the process.

Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely. Three branches of government. We hold these truths ...

Re: Choosing Hong Kong Is a Brilliant Move by Edward Snowden

#290

Post by Spooky23 »

Stupendous wrote: post #194

I live in Hong Kong too (about 20 minutes walk from the Mira where Snowden was allegedly staying), and his stated reasons of coming here due to the country's commitment to free speech and political dissent are baffling and misguided. When compared to China, Hong Kong seems free but the reality is very different. Start with the South China Morning Post, the main English language newspaper here which has been covering…

I don't know if it makes sense or not, but the fact is that Mr. Snowden appears to not be in custody at the moment. So that says something.
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