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Did Obama Just Destroy the U.S. Internet Industry?

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Re: Did Obama Just Destroy the U.S. Internet Industry?

#281

Post by geoka9 »

decasteve wrote: post #33

I'm Canadian. I'll be locking down my communications as best I can: email (GPG), instant messaging, chat, etc. I'd like to see my American neighbours do the same and hold their politicians feet the fire over this. I feel like I should boycott the US companies on the list, at least to some degree. I have made the switch to DuckDuckGo and Mozilla. A Blackberry, as opposed to Android, will be my next smartphone. As a de…

> I'll be emailing my member of parliament (MP) to make sure we keep tabs on this in Canada, and keep our privacy laws intact.

openmedia.org seems to have done a good job campaigning against the Online Spying Bill.

Re: Did Obama Just Destroy the U.S. Internet Industry?

#282

Post by [deleted] »

decasteve wrote: post #33

I'm Canadian. I'll be locking down my communications as best I can: email (GPG), instant messaging, chat, etc. I'd like to see my American neighbours do the same and hold their politicians feet the fire over this. I feel like I should boycott the US companies on the list, at least to some degree. I have made the switch to DuckDuckGo and Mozilla. A Blackberry, as opposed to Android, will be my next smartphone. As a de…

[deleted]

Re: Did Obama Just Destroy the U.S. Internet Industry?

#283

Post by [deleted] »

decasteve wrote: post #33

I'm Canadian. I'll be locking down my communications as best I can: email (GPG), instant messaging, chat, etc. I'd like to see my American neighbours do the same and hold their politicians feet the fire over this. I feel like I should boycott the US companies on the list, at least to some degree. I have made the switch to DuckDuckGo and Mozilla. A Blackberry, as opposed to Android, will be my next smartphone. As a de…

[deleted]

Re: Did Obama Just Destroy the U.S. Internet Industry?

#284

Post by [deleted] »

decasteve wrote: post #33

I'm Canadian. I'll be locking down my communications as best I can: email (GPG), instant messaging, chat, etc. I'd like to see my American neighbours do the same and hold their politicians feet the fire over this. I feel like I should boycott the US companies on the list, at least to some degree. I have made the switch to DuckDuckGo and Mozilla. A Blackberry, as opposed to Android, will be my next smartphone. As a de…

[deleted]

Re: Did Obama Just Destroy the U.S. Internet Industry?

#286

Post by jjh42 »

justincormack wrote: post #182
atirip wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Suppose you do business with an American company that has servers in Australia (for the record we are registered in the UK, not the US), and they get a FISA warrant? Of course they will send the info over" There's a way out. Those server offshore must be handled by subsidiary. Then the parent company in US does not have the data and they can not also command subsidiary to handle it over.

The big US companies have made it clear that they will give out data held by subsidiaries, even if this is illegal eg under European law.

Is this true? genuine question - have these companies stated this or done so in the past?

Re: Did Obama Just Destroy the U.S. Internet Industry?

#287

Post by einhverfr »

radd9er wrote: post #271
einhverfr wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it is also that it is far easier for the police who have lots of surveillance to jail their own citizens than to swoop in and jail foreigners. The risk of abuses are there in both cases but they are orders of magnitude more when the police doing the arresting are from the same country as the ones doing the surveillance.

The risk for foreigners is the same when you consider the US gov sharing intelligence with other governments.

I wouldn't say it is the same. It would only be the same if all the governments shared everything they know, and I doubt that is the case.

Re: Did Obama Just Destroy the U.S. Internet Industry?

#288

Post by vbuterin »

SagelyGuru wrote: post #198
zmmmmm wrote: post #104

One of the rather interesting side issues in this whole debate has been how casually the rights of foreigners are tossed aside as secondary to those of american citizens. There is intense debate about whether US citizens rights are being violated, but almost nobody questions whether there's any moral or ethical issue with completely unrestrained spying on everybody else. While I understand that this is largely becaus…

'Foreigners' are customers too. They are expected to abide by the terms of service agreements (TOS) issued by these companies, which all include statements about protecting customers' data and privacy. As far as I can see, all these companies broke their contracts (their own TOS).

And from a legal standpoint just because there's a law that happens to force you to break a contract does not usually absolve you from liability for doing so. Of course, many of these contracts may contain some kind of "you have no rights if the law says so" clause, in which case the companies would be in the clear.

Re: Did Obama Just Destroy the U.S. Internet Industry?

#289

Post by justincormack »

jjh42 wrote: post #286
justincormack wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The big US companies have made it clear that they will give out data held by subsidiaries, even if this is illegal eg under European law.

Is this true? genuine question - have these companies stated this or done so in the past?

Yes, this has been an issue for a few years now eg see http://www.zdnet.com/blog/igeneration/eu-demands-answers-ove...

Re: Did Obama Just Destroy the U.S. Internet Industry?

#290

Post by x3c »

flexie wrote: post #137
zmmmmm wrote: post #104

One of the rather interesting side issues in this whole debate has been how casually the rights of foreigners are tossed aside as secondary to those of american citizens. There is intense debate about whether US citizens rights are being violated, but almost nobody questions whether there's any moral or ethical issue with completely unrestrained spying on everybody else. While I understand that this is largely becaus…

Absolutely. I remember how in 2001 when the US as the first country ever invoked article 5 of the NATO treaty, within hours all NATO members had followed through with support. And the minute of silence that was held all over Europe for the 9/11 victims. Then we joined them in two wars. We bought their cell phones, their operating systems and productivity suites, their internet adds, hosting and email services and mov…

Had to google what article 5 of NATO was:

The Parties agree that an armed attack against one or more of them in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against them all and consequently they agree that, if such an armed attack occurs, each of them, in exercise of the right of individual or collective self-defence recognised by Article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations, will assist the Party or Parties so attacked by taking forthwith, individually and in concert with the other Parties, such action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed force, to restore and maintain the security of the North Atlantic area.

Any such armed attack and all measures taken as a result thereof shall immediately be reported to the Security Council. Such measures shall be terminated when the Security Council has taken the measures necessary to restore and maintain international peace and security.

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