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Are coders worth it?

aeonmagazine.com

281–290 of 324 posts

Re: Are coders worth it?

#281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People in 20-30 ages neither have virtue, nor know the meaning of value. They structure their lives around "fun", which is definable, post-hoc. edit: by post-hoc I mean, facebook was never meant for memes, but it does now. So you say "facbook is about fun memes", "XXXX was fun". Both of them were not in the original idea, but you express the fallacy. The fact is, the 15-30's people doze off in a third rate movie, hav…

Those are some really broad brush strokes.

It is also just barely too incoherent to argue against.

I guess some skills do improve with age.

Re: Are coders worth it?

#282
You are wrong in generalizing all coders. You may be a "coder" designing web sites, doing repetitive work. But there are many out there working towards improvising the workflow in Healthcare, Manufacturing, Entertainment/Gaming, etc.

And as for comparing a coal miner to a coder (personally find that as the best comparison to make when mocking someone who undervalues coders); there is no special added value the miner brings to his workplace compared to a "coder" aka software engineer, whose 1hr's work can make processes efficient and increase productivity for 1000 more people.

Overall, I like your style of writing from your perspective. There is the reality part you have added. But as for generalizing coders. Don't. Specially here on HN.

Re: Are coders worth it?

#283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW what I understand Hayek as discussing is something different, which is that centrally imposed definitions of "good" have very little to do with local decisions that people make. Hayek is arguing, as I read him, against the idea that "social good" as we culturally construct it through centralized structures (church and state) is the goal of the economy. There is a way out of this, and that is a 19th century Catho…

I don't know if Hayek would be on board with it. The main problem is that it introduces a new criterion for arranging production which doesn't emerge from the existing order. Hayek isn't trying to build the Ideal World. He's taking the world he saw and said "here's how it works", and then, "here's why it wouldn't work if we decided to design a system instead of having it emerge". So for example, if subsidiarity is im…

The point of subsidiarity though is that it puts central authorities in the position of midwifery for having such a world emerge rather than in the position of architecting, designing, and building it.

Re: Are coders worth it?

#284
post #274
post #258

Oh boy, I have a lot of comments here, most of them in agreement with the article but not all. According to all the anecdotal knowledge I have, my conclusion has been that currently software engineering and chemical engineering are tied for the locally optimal career choice for those with a four year degree or less. While some college graduates (or dropouts) will go become billionaires, as a general rule, it is quite…

Just because there's a clearly defined path to making a lot of money in a high prestige job doesn't mean it's easy or that everyone can pull it off. The best way to start an "upper class career" is to be born into the upper class. Good luck getting into finance or consulting if you didn't go to a top tier university. And it's not small matter -- even if you have the right background -- to get that job at McKinsey or…

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Re: Are coders worth it?

#285
post #192
post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure some parts of software will become manufactured and mass produced - I mean that's the case today. How many libraries do you use? However, software is still an intellectual, out of thin air, endeavor. It requires thought to create new and make work with existing circumstances. You aren't melting metal into a mold to make a tangible object. You are literally fusing thoughts and intellectual processes together to d…

But how long will this idea of 'fusing thoughts and intellectual processes' remain the sole domain of humans? Besides from some creative leaps, a lot of this has to do with logic: knowing what works where and when. I'm working on an idea tied to literate programming where someone can tell a story of what they want a program to do, put it in a wiki, and then programmers can edit the wiki to add in the actual software…

Turning thoughts into software is what software engineers do every day. At every point along the technology trajectory technologists have created more and more powerful abstractions. When transistors where first created: print "Hello World" would have seemed a magical melding of the minds of machine and man, whereas today we can create customized eCommerce social networks with a few keystrokes.

However, as powerful as the tools get, you still have to tell the machine exactly what you want it to do. Depending on the tool, sometimes that is easy, sometimes that is hard. I feel like there should be a fundamental law of "ability to easily express" vs "flexibility of expression." I'm not sure how much machine learning can serve as our savior in this regard, even if we can eliminate "make an Amazon clone" posts on cheap-outsourced-developer.com by just using ML to classify it and spit out the boiler plate.

In order for something to be profitable it has to be customized, and when this happens the abstractions inevitably seem to break down. Based on this I think turning thoughts into software will happen around the same time thinking becomes mass-produced. How can you create, "eBay, but for car buying, with a twitter messaging component built for the Brazilian market" without first beating the Turing test as a sub-problem?

Re: Are coders worth it?

#286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's not that software engineering has not yet gone through a true manufacturing disruption, it's that each new disruption increases the scope of problems that software can be applied to rather than reducing the skill it takes to create it. The invention of compilers was a huge watershed moment for programming. All the manual labor you had to do, keeping track of memory layouts and registers and stack frames,…

How many computer programmers really work on the complex problems; speech recognition, computer vision, etc; though? Even games, how many programmers are writing really top-notch engines? How's their share of the pie break down as compared to the rapid explosion of in the assets side of things? It seems to me, and I may be wrong on this, that the complexity of the problems that most programmers are approaching doesn'…

Don't underestimate the difficulty in making something not just work, but work well, and for millions of people.

Re: Are coders worth it?

#287
And all lawyers do is translate legal language into common tongue (speaking from experience) I looked up the law regarding my lawsuit and pointed out to my lawyer what he should say and he did so. The judge took it and I won my case. However, the judge would not have done so without my lawyer making a lengthy speech. The point being. We are the only one's who know how to put boxes on a page, so we get paid for it.

Re: Are coders worth it?

#288
post #72

The value of a lot of these apparently lightweight B2C apps is derived primarily from the attention that they get from their users. If you can build something that gets attention, then that's worth a lot of money. In a world where people are spending less and less time watching TV there is now a huge imbalance between corporations who have lots of money and want attention, and huge numbers of people with smartphones…

Because when you want to buy a laptop what's the first thing you do?

Re: Are coders worth it?

#289

Am I the only one that wants coders to stop feeling guilty and devaluing themselves? The plumber analogy is off base. Web development is incredibly more complex than plumbing in a home. Importantly, web development changes extremely fast while plumbing is largely the same as it has been for decades. The web and the developers that have created all of the sites and apps on top of it has added tremendous value to our e…

As a developer who also knows plumbing (and other trades), I'd beg to differ. When I talk to neighbors and friends, most of whom are highly "technical", they look at me in disbelief when I suggest they resolve a plumbing (or carpentry or mechanical) issue on their own. I get the "I have no idea where to start", or "I don't have any tools", and so on. It's not a lack of available information, it's the fear, in many ca…

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Re: Are coders worth it?

#290

Am I the only one that wants coders to stop feeling guilty and devaluing themselves? The plumber analogy is off base. Web development is incredibly more complex than plumbing in a home. Importantly, web development changes extremely fast while plumbing is largely the same as it has been for decades. The web and the developers that have created all of the sites and apps on top of it has added tremendous value to our e…

As a developer who also knows plumbing (and other trades), I'd beg to differ. When I talk to neighbors and friends, most of whom are highly "technical", they look at me in disbelief when I suggest they resolve a plumbing (or carpentry or mechanical) issue on their own. I get the "I have no idea where to start", or "I don't have any tools", and so on. It's not a lack of available information, it's the fear, in many ca…

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