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Opera moves to WebKit

my.opera.com

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Re: Opera moves to WebKit

#281

Post by prumek »

kmfrk wrote: post #156

As someone who has used Opera for over ten years - probably 15 - and still does, Opera has become an awful browser over the last year or so. Opera used to be superior to other browsers, because it offered a full feature solution - a perfect alternative to Firefox - and it is still the only browser with native tab stacking. It also used to be the fastest browser for people with an assload of active tabs (hell, the onl…

Sad story. Too bad you hear it every time there's a new version. Apparently Opera has become more awful every single version, from the very first public version back in the 90s.

Re: Opera moves to WebKit

#282

Post by prumek »

jasonkester wrote: post #53

Smart move. I don't know a single web dev who tests on Opera anymore. I personally stopped worrying about it for any of my products when it hit 1.6% market share, and that was five years ago. They're essentially not supported by anybody, and haven't been for a long time. ... But that's never mattered, since they have always known it. And they went out of their way to make sure they rendered exactly like the dominant…

> they're switching to copying Chrome

How so? Like Chrome copied Safari because they're both using Webkit?

> They'll continue to be the browser that nobody cares about (aside from six people who are no doubt here in this thread somewhere), but your site will probably render fine on it.

That's the problem for you Opera bashers. It will now have room to grow and get a much bigger user base on PCs.

Re: Opera moves to WebKit

#283

Post by prumek »

aclimatt wrote: post #216
tarabukka wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not passive aggressive? >the browser that nobody cares about >Now they see Chrome is going to win Implies that Opera never innovates or has anything interesting to offer, and implies that instead they follow the market leader like-for-like. They were one of the first browsers to have tabs and supported many CSS3 properties without prefixes first. Just because they didn't support WebSuperFlySpeedySocketRockets the day…

No, they're literally copying Chromium. They're forking the source tree and including it as the rendering engine in their browser. That is a verbatim copy. There's nothing wrong with that, and I think it's a smart move and does not speak anything less of Opera (in fact it speaks probably a lot more), but it is a copy. Before, Opera "copied" Trident by implementing the same quirks so pages behaved the same way. They w…

> No, they're literally copying Chromium. They're forking the source tree and including it as the rendering engine in their browser. That is a verbatim copy.

This is misleading nonsense. You led people to believe that they would just make a copy of Chrome, but they will obviously not just compile Chromium and give it a new name. They will most likely bring the entire Quick framework and their existing UI to the Chromium framework.

Re: Opera moves to WebKit

#284

Post by prumek »

meaty wrote: post #78
jasonkester wrote: post #53

Smart move. I don't know a single web dev who tests on Opera anymore. I personally stopped worrying about it for any of my products when it hit 1.6% market share, and that was five years ago. They're essentially not supported by anybody, and haven't been for a long time. ... But that's never mattered, since they have always known it. And they went out of their way to make sure they rendered exactly like the dominant…

I've upvoted you because it's the same from us. We have had zero hits from opera for a couple of years.

You should probably update your stats scripts.

Re: Opera moves to WebKit

#285

Post by prumek »

jve wrote: post #96
jahewson wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are a lot of markets where Opera has 10, 20, or 30% share. As there are so many would you mind listing a few?

Russia. Was 20%+ last year, now 10%+ http://gs.statcounter.com/#browser-RU-monthly-201201-201301 Or Belarus 30%+: http://gs.statcounter.com/#browser-BY-monthly-201201-201301

StatCounter is a terrible source for anything outside of North America and Western Europe.

Re: Opera moves to WebKit

#286

Post by prumek »

c1u wrote: post #143
rplnt wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As highlighted by my comment, it's middle and eastern Europe : Ukraine 20% (36%), Slovakia 6% (13%), Poland 7% (12%), Czech Republic 5% (10%), Russia 14% (32%), Belarus 32% (45%), Kazachstan 32% (16%) Also, Mobile browsers are not insignificant market: (whole) Europe 24% (50%) Numbers from statcounter.com as of January 2013 (January 2010). I picked 2010 as it was about the time Chrome started it's push around here (I…

Those are all immature web markets. By the time the majority of web users in those countries spend a significant amount of money online, they probably wont be using Opera anymore. If you're looking for more file-sharing users, sure, target these markets. But if you want to make money today then don't waste your time. (I've lived in, started/run businesses, and produced web products in Eastern Europe).

Why wouldn't they be using Opera anymore? They will be used to Opera, and the brand will be well known to most people.

Why do you think Google is desperate to enter these markets right now?

Re: Opera moves to WebKit

#287

Post by prumek »

blablabla123 wrote: post #188
DanBC wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Noble aim but that doesn't work in the consumer world. I am pretty open-minded, so I am seriously trying to use Opera every 2 or 3 years. And each time I really start to enjoy using it but after one or two days I get horribly disappointed: a significant number of websites I like just doesn't work. Not just loss in function, they are completely unusuable, for instance I get a white page. You're saying that's the fau…

>You're saying that's the fault of Opera when it's possibly the fault of lazy devs. Obviously it's "hobby devs" breaking the standards and Opera having low tolerance for that. As a matter of fact, a large part of the web's success is due to hobbyists. The hobbyists were only able to contribute to the success because it was and still is so easy. You don't have to be a HTML or JS guru to create a dynamic web page. On t…

> Opera having low tolerance for that

Except that is not true. Opera has a high tolerance, probably much higher than any other browser (out of necessity). But that doesn't help much if you're being blocked or sites constantly find new bugs in other browsers they decide to work around and thereby breaking it in any browser that is not one of the top 3.

Re: Opera moves to WebKit

#288

Post by dgesang »

dgesang wrote: post #219
crazygringo wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup! After all, web developers are individual people with their own opinions, not a monoculture. It's not hypocritical when different members of a group hold contradictory opinions. But if you open your mind a little, you'll also see that the two opinions can also be totally compatible, just dependent on the context. For example, expanding "HTML9" (ha!) can be great for exploring, prototyping, experimenting , where a…

While only >10%-share browsers can be worth commercially developing for That's one problem: many web developers program for browsers , not standards . In other words, ideally, there would be a "polyculture" in innovation and experimentation, that would constantly funnel into a "monoculture" in actual final standards. Yes, and IMHO that is what happens to browser rendering engines atm. Everyone agrees/complies to one…

Hm, I didn't say a word about time.

Re: Opera moves to WebKit

#289

Post by prumek »

rplnt wrote: post #82
jasonkester wrote: post #53

Smart move. I don't know a single web dev who tests on Opera anymore. I personally stopped worrying about it for any of my products when it hit 1.6% market share, and that was five years ago. They're essentially not supported by anybody, and haven't been for a long time. ... But that's never mattered, since they have always known it. And they went out of their way to make sure they rendered exactly like the dominant…

You don't have to test for it if you are in a market where it has 1.6% share. There are a lot of markets where Opera has 10, 20, or 30% share. As for the second paragraph, Opera was actually strict pro-standard.. sometimes for their own bad. Third paragraph is total bullshit. If anything, Chrome is the one copying from Opera. Webkit isn't "Chrome in a box" either. And pull of what this time? As mentioned in my first…

> Opera was actually strict pro-standard.. sometimes for their own bad.

Not quite. They always made every effort to be as compatible as possible with real world sites.

Re: Opera moves to WebKit

#290

Post by DigitalSea »

msoad wrote: post #269
DigitalSea wrote: post #266

I don't understand why people are so outraged by this... Webkit has proven itself as a worthy browser engine, as a web developer Webkit is responsible for bringing back the fun into web development (for me at least) and lets face it how many developers even test their sites in Opera any more with exception of a few? This is great news because lets face it, Webkit is one of the best engines out there, period. That's n…

WebKit is not a "browser engine".

Layout engine, browser engine. Same thing to me. No need to nitpick.
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