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OpenAI: GPT 5.6 Sol price reduction (until at least Nov 21)

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Re: OpenAI: GPT 5.6 Sol price reduction (until at least Nov 21)

#281

Post by byzantinegene »

colingauvin wrote: post #105
sebzim4500 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt he was claiming that. He's probably saying that the ability of Chinese companies to be able to distill frontier US models has put downwards pressure on the price of all models.

I'm saying that it is unclear that without distillation this wouldn't still be happening. There is a massive narrative that no one but OpenAI, Anthropic, and Google can make a model without distilling. But there's basically no evidence of that.

I think the (non-definitive) evidence is that the chinese models are always just slightly behind the publically released US models, and never ahead.

Re: OpenAI: GPT 5.6 Sol price reduction (until at least Nov 21)

#282

Post by dimitri-vs »

m101 wrote: post #254

These are my opinions on which circumstances Sol fails terribly vs Fable. I am the type of coder that vibe codes - I talk to the agent about a problem, have it write a plan, red team the plan, and then implement the plan. These projects are things which haven’t really been done before, or if they have it’s not public or not in many places. What I find is that Sol is hyper-left brained. Super focused on small details.…

FWIW Seeing the same thing with Opus 5. Not sure if the models are being over optimized for agentic tasks or over reliance on synthetic data, because since Opus 4.6 I feel like emotional/conversational intelligence has been on a decline (Fable being the exception)

Re: OpenAI: GPT 5.6 Sol price reduction (until at least Nov 21)

#283

Post by GMoromisato »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #274
GMoromisato wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Cooling is probably the easiest problem to solve, easier than power. And in both cases, the problem is solved by mass to orbit. All you need for cooling is a big f-ing radiator. Solar panels are chips, and not trivial to manufacture. But a radiator is just a hunk of metal with some pipes. That's why the cost of mass to orbit is the most important thing. You can solve almost any space problem by just throwing more…

Any hardware that could be launched to orbit could also be put on a container ship in international waters. It makes zero sense to put these things in space.

You can't deploy enough solar panels on a container ship to feed the datacenter, and a nuclear reactor, while not impossible, is far more expensive than solar panels.

Solar panels are 4x more efficient in space. 2x because of lack of atmosphere and another 2x because there are 24 hours of sunlight in SSO.

Is it really that hard to just say, "I don't know if it will work or not"?

Re: OpenAI: GPT 5.6 Sol price reduction (until at least Nov 21)

#284

Post by matchagaucho »

eigenspace wrote: post #9

The fact that AI models can be so easily distilled and replicated is such a stroke of luck. 10 or 15 years ago if one had asked me to envision a future where a private company invents artificial intelligence, I'd have thought for sure they'd have a massive moat, be very difficult to catch, and it would create an almost instant monopoly. Rather, it seems that selling intelligence might end up as a race to the bottom.…

We're mostly paying for AI delivery, performance and SLAs at this point.

GPT 5.6 Luna at $0.20 per 1M is pretty good for 80% of enteprise applications.

Re: OpenAI: GPT 5.6 Sol price reduction (until at least Nov 21)

#285

Post by fooker »

eigenspace wrote: post #9

The fact that AI models can be so easily distilled and replicated is such a stroke of luck. 10 or 15 years ago if one had asked me to envision a future where a private company invents artificial intelligence, I'd have thought for sure they'd have a massive moat, be very difficult to catch, and it would create an almost instant monopoly. Rather, it seems that selling intelligence might end up as a race to the bottom.…

I think this indicates we are eventually going to stumble upon much more efficient ‘intelligence’.

Probably not through what we call distillation now. There’s some magical technique hiding there, go find it!

Re: OpenAI: GPT 5.6 Sol price reduction (until at least Nov 21)

#286

Post by raincole »

adastra22 wrote: post #214
kingstnap wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you think of LLMs as programs. The weights and inference code are very much a binary. While the training code and data are the true source. Since if you want to robustly modify the LLM that's actually what you need. But since "compilation" (training) is extremely compute intensive this isn't something accessible to anyone without an entire datacenter. Anyway semantics aside having the binary is still infinitely be…

That’s not how it works though. Two training runs on the same data don’t produce the same weights. And if you want to modify the AI, you do so by fine tuning the weights not rerunning training. In every respect that matters, the weights are both the binary and the source code together.

By this standard there is no closed source software on PC. You can always modify the binary directly or hook your functions in.

Re: OpenAI: GPT 5.6 Sol price reduction (until at least Nov 21)

#287

Post by Rover222 »

qlte wrote: post #260
GMoromisato wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yours is the only valid argument. If space datacenters are not competitive with terrestrial (in terms of megatokens/$ or whatever), then they will never work and SpaceX will fail. That's the whole ball game. But anyone who thinks they can predict those prices in ten years is wildly overconfident.

> then they will never work and SpaceX will fail Or, Elon pulls his classic narrative sleight of hand for like the 9th time and announces SpaceXesla is NOT a car, battery, solar, self-driving, robot, space launch, space datacenter, or AI company but now completely pivoting the business to [INSERT NEXT BIG THING] that will 100x the company in 6 months maybe, 6 years definitely. Space Datacenters eventually get quietly…

remind me 3 years to laugh at how wrong you are

Re: OpenAI: GPT 5.6 Sol price reduction (until at least Nov 21)

#288

Post by Rover222 »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #274
GMoromisato wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Cooling is probably the easiest problem to solve, easier than power. And in both cases, the problem is solved by mass to orbit. All you need for cooling is a big f-ing radiator. Solar panels are chips, and not trivial to manufacture. But a radiator is just a hunk of metal with some pipes. That's why the cost of mass to orbit is the most important thing. You can solve almost any space problem by just throwing more…

Any hardware that could be launched to orbit could also be put on a container ship in international waters. It makes zero sense to put these things in space.

you're all so clueless with these arguments. there's 5x the solar power in space. it's all about how many watts of compute you can bring online. in a sun synchronous orbit there is 24-hr solar power. there is no weather or maintenance.

Re: OpenAI: GPT 5.6 Sol price reduction (until at least Nov 21)

#289

Post by NegativeLatency »

byzantinegene wrote: post #278
MetaWhirledPeas wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The fact that AI models can be so easily distilled and replicated is such a stroke of luck. Sort of. It means the country on the verge of monopolizing all aspects of hardware production (China) doesn't need to rely on outsiders for the software. So while that weakens one monopoly it strengthens another.

China is still quite far from monopolizing hardware production

Can you buy a laptop or phone not made in china, not made from parts from china?

At a regular store not some weird nerd laptop for normies.

Re: OpenAI: GPT 5.6 Sol price reduction (until at least Nov 21)

#290

Post by weird-eye-issue »

tshaddox wrote: post #230
eigenspace wrote: post #9

The fact that AI models can be so easily distilled and replicated is such a stroke of luck. 10 or 15 years ago if one had asked me to envision a future where a private company invents artificial intelligence, I'd have thought for sure they'd have a massive moat, be very difficult to catch, and it would create an almost instant monopoly. Rather, it seems that selling intelligence might end up as a race to the bottom.…

For what it’s worth, “race to the bottom” typically refers to a scenario that we absolutely do not want as a consumer. We do want a highly competitive market that drives prices down, but “race to the bottom” specifically refers to a scenario where firms compete by minimizing quality, regulatory oversight, consumer/labor/environmental protection, etc.

Well aside from quality it kind of seems like those other things are getting skirted by. We are very much in a phase of let's see if this is possible and exploit it rather than should we actually be doing this

And I'm saying this as somebody that's made millions selling AI software in the last few years...

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