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Patreon laying off 20% of staff

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Re: Patreon laying off 20% of staff

#281

Post by zamadatix »

cogman10 wrote: post #154
zamadatix wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no way to fire a lot of people in a way everyone likes, only ways which suck more than others for different people. Whether you think they are dramatic is not one of the sucks they are very concerned with as you're one if the ones who will forget this layoff in a few hours

All at once? Sure, no good way. But there are ways to reduce headcount without causing waves. Those include things like simply not backfilling for people that leave the company or who are fired for low performance. Letting a bunch of people go all at once is a sign of poor management and poor planning. Or it's a sign that Patreon wants to go public and ATM the stock market loves layoffs.

Not everyone will jump for joy at these options either. Hell, I'm not even sure there is a way to expand headcount that someone won't have issue with. The business planning is just as bad or good regardless the reaction to the announcement though.

Re: Patreon laying off 20% of staff

#282

Post by engineer_22 »

prepend wrote: post #120
engineer_22 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why these melodramatic posts ? Morale. It’s important that the remaining employees are psychologically secure. They’re trying to make sure they know the company isn’t in jeopardy and that management has them in mind. Some research supports this https://www.researchgate.net/publication/228120426_Survivors... In my /opinion/ a personal address, one on one assurances from a trusted manager, this might be more effectiv…

This type of BS wouldn’t make me psychologically secure. It would make me afraid because I can’t trust what leadership says.

You should lead a company you are trustworthy

Re: Patreon laying off 20% of staff

#283

Post by tombert »

Forgeties79 wrote: post #106
coliveira wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A society that doesn't value honesty deserves to be deceived.

This assumes that it’s always a lie… The point is you’re supposed to say that it’s a hard time, but you’ve made the necessary changes and you’ll come out stronger (hopefully), because otherwise why would you have made them? I just don’t think causing a panic is the same thing as honesty. You don’t have to freak everybody out about the health of the company or completely lie about the state of things.

I just don’t feel like the faux optimism actually works for anyone who has worked in the corporate world long enough.

I, along with a lot of people I know, have developed a certain amount of cynicism around the entire corporate world, and so when I hear this kind of corporate doublespeak and refusal to talk to me like an adult, it generally feels anywhere between “infantilizing” to “gaslightey”. This kind of language worked for well enough for me when I first started my career but now I never assume any significant level of honesty from anyone high-up enough at a company.

I am not sure what the optimal way to run a business is, and I am not even 100% sure I care. “Making a business successful” doesn’t imply that I have to like how they do it. Maybe the only way to run a business is to always pretend every fucking thing is sunshine and rainbows, but I still think it’s very annoying. Instead of them being real with me, I have to decrypt a secret subtext and determine if I have to start updating my resume.

Re: Patreon laying off 20% of staff

#284

Post by coliveira »

Forgeties79 wrote: post #106
coliveira wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A society that doesn't value honesty deserves to be deceived.

This assumes that it’s always a lie… The point is you’re supposed to say that it’s a hard time, but you’ve made the necessary changes and you’ll come out stronger (hopefully), because otherwise why would you have made them? I just don’t think causing a panic is the same thing as honesty. You don’t have to freak everybody out about the health of the company or completely lie about the state of things.

Panic may only exist in a company that is already lying about its true situation. If managers were telling the truth about what is going on in a company, everyone would be Ok with new updates about its financial position.

Re: Patreon laying off 20% of staff

#285

Post by Forgeties79 »

coliveira wrote: post #284
Forgeties79 wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This assumes that it’s always a lie… The point is you’re supposed to say that it’s a hard time, but you’ve made the necessary changes and you’ll come out stronger (hopefully), because otherwise why would you have made them? I just don’t think causing a panic is the same thing as honesty. You don’t have to freak everybody out about the health of the company or completely lie about the state of things.

Panic may only exist in a company that is already lying about its true situation. If managers were telling the truth about what is going on in a company, everyone would be Ok with new updates about its financial position.

Speak for yourself lol if my company leadership just delivers bad news and then fails to give me hope for my job tomorrow I’m dusting off my resume and starting to apply elsewhere. If they don’t believe things can be corrected why on earth would I?

Re: Patreon laying off 20% of staff

#286

Post by Forgeties79 »

tombert wrote: post #283
Forgeties79 wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This assumes that it’s always a lie… The point is you’re supposed to say that it’s a hard time, but you’ve made the necessary changes and you’ll come out stronger (hopefully), because otherwise why would you have made them? I just don’t think causing a panic is the same thing as honesty. You don’t have to freak everybody out about the health of the company or completely lie about the state of things.

I just don’t feel like the faux optimism actually works for anyone who has worked in the corporate world long enough. I, along with a lot of people I know, have developed a certain amount of cynicism around the entire corporate world, and so when I hear this kind of corporate doublespeak and refusal to talk to me like an adult, it generally feels anywhere between “infantilizing” to “gaslightey”. This kind of language…

If it’s faux optimism then by definition it’s deceptive so we’d be in agreement there. But that’s not what I’m talking about.

Re: Patreon laying off 20% of staff

#287

Post by tombert »

Forgeties79 wrote: post #286
tombert wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just don’t feel like the faux optimism actually works for anyone who has worked in the corporate world long enough. I, along with a lot of people I know, have developed a certain amount of cynicism around the entire corporate world, and so when I hear this kind of corporate doublespeak and refusal to talk to me like an adult, it generally feels anywhere between “infantilizing” to “gaslightey”. This kind of language…

If it’s faux optimism then by definition it’s deceptive so we’d be in agreement there. But that’s not what I’m talking about.

“Faux” might not be the right word.

“Forced” might be better. Sort of like the aggressive happiness you see in TV shows for very small children.

Re: Patreon laying off 20% of staff

#288

Post by lenkite »

codegeek wrote: post #42

The only possible positive thing out of this cringy article is that the severance is decent (for a US company). 4 months of pay and healthcare coverage through Year end. Everything else could have just been a couple of sentences. Companies need to stop doing this melodrama every time they decide to fire people. Everyone knows the goal is to make money and keep a company profitable for their shareholders. Why these me…

Patreon lost >90% of customers from India and a few other Asian nations since they did not implement credit card 2FA nor implement support for native payment gateways. Had to drop a dozen patreon subscriptions and found several hundreds online were complaining about the same thing. Several creators were puzzled why they had a sudden drop without any feedback. Many folks just shrugged and silently moved onto other mechanisms.

Re: Patreon laying off 20% of staff

#289

Post by codegeek »

keiferski wrote: post #122
codegeek wrote: post #42

The only possible positive thing out of this cringy article is that the severance is decent (for a US company). 4 months of pay and healthcare coverage through Year end. Everything else could have just been a couple of sentences. Companies need to stop doing this melodrama every time they decide to fire people. Everyone knows the goal is to make money and keep a company profitable for their shareholders. Why these me…

Because part of being a CEO is having social skills, and doing what you suggested is extremely socially inept. Explaining why layoffs needed to happen, expressing remorse about it, and giving a good severance package is what serious adults with empathy for their employees do. It's also a good way to maintain at least a neutral relationship with everyone you're laying off. Compare that to a company that coldly fires y…

I never said "minimal severance". I am actually saying that give them a great severance but stop with the other BS about "oh how much we love you".

Re: Patreon laying off 20% of staff

#290

Post by AbsurdCensor »

surgical_fire wrote: post #236
fourseventy wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1.) The c-suite is like 6 people, reducing their salary isn't going to make much of a dent. 2.) The c-suite are compensated at market rate the same as anyone else. If the CTO at Patreon is making 400k/yr you can't just cut his salary to 200k, he will leave and take a job somewhere else.

> The c-suite is like 6 people, reducing their salary isn't going to make much of a dent. Depends on how much those 6 people make. Have you seem C-level compensation in comparison to worker's salaries?

Certainly have. Patreon’s CEO isnt taking a salary and his comp package is estimated to be $250k. That’s sure going to save the salary of the almost 100 people, as long as they are making $2000 a year.

Yes, there are outlier companies, but not C-Suite isn’t just taking a massive check home, it’s a compensation of a inflated salary and comp package, which it most companies never would cover the amount of people let go. That’s often the case at every company.

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