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Data centers trigger voter backlash

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Re: Data centers trigger voter backlash

#281

Post by jnwatson »

thewillowcat wrote: post #246
adamsb6 wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m a voter who prefers we establish rules that be followed rather than encumber every project with a lengthy community dialogue.

These companies aren't coming in, buying property at market rates, and developing it with existing infrastructure under current zoning laws. They usually want tax breaks, major infrastructure changes, and other accommodations and guarantees. It's completely reasonable for people to want a dialog with their representatives before those kinds of arrangements are made with a company on their behalf. And it's entirely re…

A meeting to get a lamp post change is exactly how progress stops. It is why we can't build anything in US and it costs a billion dollars per mile of high speed rail.

Re: Data centers trigger voter backlash

#282

Post by blurri »

godwinson__4-8 wrote: post #115
kentm wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is fair but I mean as long as people are agitating politically it seems like going after the data center is going after the wrong end of the equation, with similarly difficult odds of success. I don't see why you think that. Its something that: 1) These CEOs and people with power want 2) The populace has some degree of control over, since its local politics vs national. That makes it an attractive way to push…

This doesn't make sense. The reason Congress is difficult is because of those same powerful people. A world in which you can actually stop the buildout is a world in which lobbying Congress is much easier. You have control over who you vote for. Congress is not elected nationally. Sorry I just don't see how your points make sense. You might have better success of pushing the data centers off to your neighbor. But thi…

Your position pretty much sounds like "you can't stop it so why try" thus making it a "bad idea" which is really doesn't make any sense. Right now, they are attempting to build data centers in the worst possible places with issues such as not enough water supply, not enough energy and forcing the everyone in those communities to suffer. Clearly "forcing buildout to another area" is not a bad idea.

Re: Data centers trigger voter backlash

#283

Post by TurdF3rguson »

ozim wrote: post #251
TurdF3rguson wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You live in a touristy area because you have a tourism-related job, right? Because where are the tourists supposed to stay if there's no hotels?

Not really. I was just born there and it wasn’t as touristy when I was a child. It blew up as touristy place when I was a teenager and in my twenties. My parents had odd jobs, construction, chemical processing operations. There was some small scale industry running there as well but it went bust when people wanted fresh air for tourism. Even if the industry was really small scale for marketing sake local government g…

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Re: Data centers trigger voter backlash

#284

Post by arjie »

doom2 wrote: post #259
xvedejas wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a working economy, an increase in demand for electricity would be met with an increase in investment and capacity, and (at least in the long-term) would benefit all electricity buyers. I'm sure there are market failures going on here in many places but it's not necessarily the case that you and the companies be on opposing sides. There are positive-sum solutions to a lot of these problems, if people are willing to…

> In a working economy, an increase in demand for electricity would be met with an increase in investment and capacity, and (at least in the long-term) would benefit all electricity buyers. The same should apply to memory and GPU manufacturers and yet I have seen no commitments from them to increase supply, so the end result is that consumer electronics are becoming ever more expensive compared to even just a year ag…

This is an unusual comment to read because many manufacturers are public and therefore have released their expansion plans to shareholders (and therefore the public). Most recently, Micron is planning to build much more because their clients have made purchase agreements to 2030: https://www.aol.com/articles/micron-just-locked-100-billion-...

Re: Data centers trigger voter backlash

#285

Post by godwinson__4-8 »

kentm wrote: post #149
godwinson__4-8 wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the reality you believe in is one in which pockets of local resistance to data centers is going to meaningfully derail AI buildout across the country then I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. It's a bad idea. The few communities that succeed are still going to suffer the macro consequences of data centers being built in the next town over.

I don't think anyone is expecting to seriously "derail AI" just by preventing data centers from being built in their neighborhood. But they can at least inconvenience the people they see as the perpetrators. If you can't win the fight, and can't walk away, at least you can give your opponent a bloody lip. And who knows, maybe it gets steam and the people in congress who have been actively ignoring them have incentive…

I appreciate your perspective. Just to be clear, I wasn't advocating one simply surrenders and "hope that in the future you can convince shareholders/billionaires/US Congress to give you a pittance of UBI".

I think I'm more curious why more serious advocacy of UBI itself isn't a major platform vs the things I hear often about data centers.

I think in some ways you have touched on that but also as your comment indicates perhaps as part of negotiations as things develop UBI will come more into the forefront. I just see a lot of national politics also around data centers but relatively few on UBI. Again, if you agree that at best this is an "inconvenience" to the status quo then I would think you would also share my surprise or maybe hope that stronger voices should emerge promoting a more sustainable solution - aka UBI.

Sometimes it feels like data centers are just a distraction from that more far reaching and yet necessary conversation. Perhaps it is simply a prelude. Thanks for the discussion.

Re: Data centers trigger voter backlash

#286

Post by KennyBlanken »

TurdF3rguson wrote: post #283
ozim wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. I was just born there and it wasn’t as touristy when I was a child. It blew up as touristy place when I was a teenager and in my twenties. My parents had odd jobs, construction, chemical processing operations. There was some small scale industry running there as well but it went bust when people wanted fresh air for tourism. Even if the industry was really small scale for marketing sake local government g…

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You need to take a break from the keyboard. You're being an asshole.

Re: Data centers trigger voter backlash

#287

Post by jatora »

ToucanLoucan wrote: post #134
cogman10 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> no one I know gives a shit about the energy consumption or water usage. They do when the knowledge of the resource consumption is paired with "Which will directly lead to your electric/gas bill going up." People are also paying attention to the fact that the politicians aren't paying attention to the people. Nobody is even trying to sell the benefits of a datacenter in people's backyard. Instead, politicians are be…

I think it's less about what data centers are and more about what they represent. * The lack of care of governments of the people's will: they're opposed nearly everywhere but city governments get them done anyway, oftentimes while ignoring more important local problems * The intrusion of the wealthy/big tech into people's lives. Large tech companies tend to be like insurance companies: they just appear out of the et…

I think it's a fool's errand to believe populaces resist data centers, or take up issues in general, for any of the rational reasons you listed. It's propaganda using m legacy/social media to fuel movements. The only question is who the propaganda is from. The boogeyman guess would be China but i honestly have no clue. Either way, when you engage most of those against data centers, their positions are generally baseless (not that the anti data center movement is without merit - its just most of the movement is not in it due to rationality or logic)

Re: Data centers trigger voter backlash

#288

Post by godwinson__4-8 »

watwut wrote: post #264
godwinson__4-8 wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm really not trying to be rude, but have you followed US politics or history at all? Is this a serious question? Trying to control something by merely protecting your own backyard never works. America has reinvented its own social contract many times, it's why we are still here 250 years later. What side would you have been on in the lead up to the civil war? The nothing ever happens side? Or civil rights? Or the N…

> it's why we are still here 250 years later Like dude, 250 years is not exactly impressive amount of time. Also AI side is not civil rights side. Nor new deal side. And it is dubious which side it would take in WWII. (We know grok side - nazi, but others)

On what scale? On the scale of a nation-state it certainly is. Most of ones you will likely name that have been around longer under the surface had far more discontinuities than it would appear. Take France, it's on its Fifth Republic I think, to say nothing of its medieval nature.

The United States is actually quite remarkable for 250 years of government under the same constitution. Please give some counter examples I'll wait.

Re: Data centers trigger voter backlash

#289

Post by godwinson__4-8 »

xp84 wrote: post #229
godwinson__4-8 wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm really not trying to be rude, but have you followed US politics or history at all? Is this a serious question? Trying to control something by merely protecting your own backyard never works. America has reinvented its own social contract many times, it's why we are still here 250 years later. What side would you have been on in the lead up to the civil war? The nothing ever happens side? Or civil rights? Or the N…

Okay, Jeb Bartlett, that's a nice speech, but you're suggesting that real people need to all get on board a platform which doesn't even have enough appeal to get a plurality of everyday voters supporting it[1], and should maybe even be prepared to fight a literal civil war(?) in the hopes that minority will prevail. > American politics is frequently defined by its aspirational nature. That part I agree with, though I…

Relying on polls is a lame argument. Kamala Harris should be president I guess. The people yearn for Liz Cheney and economic opportunity zones.

Maybe a Democrat President who actually pitched UBI with the same gusto as the current president talked about "they're eating the cats and dogs" would do well. Polls are really useless when it comes to predictive power. If the last 10 years haven't taught you that I guess nothing ever well.

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