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Wikipedia Workers to Seek Union Recognition

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Re: Wikipedia Workers to Seek Union Recognition

#281

Post by sandworm101 »

some_random wrote: post #189
sandworm101 wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are some non-divestable rights out there. Canada (and others) have a copyright concept of moral rights that cannot be given away by contract or, in other words, nobody can ever force someone to give them away. An artist/creator can decide to not exercise them but the artist/creator retains them regardless of contract language. >> Unlike other IP rights, moral rights cannot be sold or given away. Even in the cas…

How is the right non-divestable if you can waive it? More importantly, how could wikipedia possibly work if contributors retained copyright in any form over their submitted articles and edits?

You waive by actively deciding not to enforce your rights. You just cannot divest those rights. So those who buy art cannot use contract to totally escape the artist. If you buy art, the artist retains a degree of control.

The pivotal case in canada involved a mall sculpture of some geese in flight. The mall put red bows on the geese during christmas. No dice. The original artist said that was an unacceptable change. They needed to get the artist permission before making such a change.

Re: Wikipedia Workers to Seek Union Recognition

#282

Post by gs17 »

one33seven wrote: post #138
lucumo wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is no reason for any employee to not search for unionization. That's a very theoretical view. (As most absolutes are.) Unions and rules around unions can be very different depending on locality, industry and other specifics. The power and benefits a union gives a specific employee may not outweigh the cost they impose on that specific employee. Furthermore, unions are organizations. They have their own intern…

So your point is, you have to look for a good union? Fully agreed!

In the US, you don't really get an option to choose. At most you'll get "paying union dues to the one that controls the contract, or not paying", often you don't get that much.

Re: Wikipedia Workers to Seek Union Recognition

#283

Post by hirako2000 »

gbanfalvi wrote: post #94
hirako2000 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also has a tendency to yield corruption. Some would call it lobbying but in the end it's a counter political force because forces on the other sides exist already. Not sure fighting fire with fire is the solution, a last resort.

It’s true. The best approach is to stand alone against the fire and try to put it out yourself. Maybe the fire will be nice to you if you beg.

A union isn't the only structure to stand organized.

The reasons fire is there? A system designed to allow it.

Re: Wikipedia Workers to Seek Union Recognition

#284

Post by tovej »

LanceH wrote: post #261
tovej wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was this in the US? In the US, anti-union action by the government and employers has been extra egregious historically. This has obviously impacted unions in the US. There's also LOTS of anti-union misinformation spreading in the US.

There is lots of pro-union misinformation as well.

Please. Share.

Re: Wikipedia Workers to Seek Union Recognition

#285

Post by meta_gunslinger »

pydry wrote: post #101
meta_gunslinger wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Worker here, with no aspiration of being a millionaire, a manager or an owner: I hate unions. They always end up being led by parasites that have no idea how to do the actual job, looking to rent-seek on the backs of people who do.

How much do you hate for time off at weekends, paid vacations and medical leave?

I’m not sure what you’re aiming for here. You’re making an assumption that in an alternative history that unions did not exist working conditions of that kind would not exist. This assumption does a lot of work and needs substantiation.

e.g in the tech industry you have high salaries, flexible schedules and generous vacations and unionization is virtually non existent

Re: Wikipedia Workers to Seek Union Recognition

#286

Post by eru »

DrBazza wrote: post #196
eru wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Until fairly recently, the general public used to be very suspicious of government employees unionising. Because it was unionising against them, the general public.

In which country, the USA? In the UK, all Government bodies are unionized.

The US was one of the countries I had in mind. Government workers are some of the most unionised of all industries there these days, but eg president FDR was staunchly against the practice.

Re: Wikipedia Workers to Seek Union Recognition

#287

Post by Frieren »

cdkmoose wrote: post #254
psychoslave wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s wrong with everyone with same degree and years in district being paid equally? Per the very definition of such a competition, not everyone can pursue and finish number one in national fame machines.

If they don't contribute equally, why should they be paid equally, especially when the individuals desire to be paid per their contribution. Some rest on their years and degree while others go above and beyond to deliver a difference. The union doesn't allow the employer to recognize that. I think there are jobs where those distinctions don't matter as much, but creative jobs and other areas where the ability of an e…

> If they don't contribute equally, why should they be paid equally

I prefer to be paid 150 than be paid 130 and my colleague 110. It is stupid to have as a goal to earn more than you colleagues. Your goal should be to maximize your own pay.

Re: Wikipedia Workers to Seek Union Recognition

#288

Post by eru »

pydry wrote: post #205
eru wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have these in Singapore as well, and our unions are toothless.

Singapore is actually a great example of somewhere where communists and trade unionists fought and won a lot of concessions (especially in the 1950s) and where that contribution was airbrushed out of history. The HDB building program was a reaction to the popularity of 1950s communists, for instance. Lee Kuan Yew yielded to a lot of good ideas like that (and CPF) under intense domestic pressure which he later pretend…

Well, the 1950s and 60s are long gone, and conditions for workers have kept improving.

Re: Wikipedia Workers to Seek Union Recognition

#289

Post by bArray »

DrBazza wrote: post #175
bArray wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only real reason for me in the UK to join a union would be for legal representation, otherwise I can represent my own interests. At least here in the UK our unions are heavily involved in politics - which is a massive issue. Currently, the leadership of the unions and the people in them are literally opposite sides of the political spectrum.

The Labour party was founded by unions, so it's no surprise they're still completely beholden to them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Labour_Party_(U...

I understand why there is that relationship, but it appears the people that make the main membership and the leadership in the unions/Labour party have drifted apart. So now you have this weird situation where the unions and the Labour party are funded by people that are largely ideologically opposed.

Re: Wikipedia Workers to Seek Union Recognition

#290

Post by bArray »

irl_ wrote: post #97
bArray wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only real reason for me in the UK to join a union would be for legal representation, otherwise I can represent my own interests. At least here in the UK our unions are heavily involved in politics - which is a massive issue. Currently, the leadership of the unions and the people in them are literally opposite sides of the political spectrum.

At any moment some change outside my control could occur and my place in society would change. Right now I'm pretty self sufficient and don't really need the support of others in day to day life, but that can change, and there's nothing I can do about it. Seems like a good idea to use this opportunity to try and improve things for everyone, even if you don't care about others, just in case your place in society chang…

Paying into the legal pot makes sense, as does paying into a medical pot. But its not clear to me that mixing politics and unions is a good idea, especially as their typical support base have politically drifted from them.
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