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Can Europe train a frontier AI model on the compute it owns?

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Re: Can Europe train a frontier AI model on the compute it owns?

#281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://theonion.com/third-amendment-rights-group-celebrates...

really? The Onion as a source?

As a humorous illustration of the point (of the presence of what is now low relevance content in the constitution.)

Let's try to figure out where the 3rd amendment might actually have significance in the future. Maybe in space habitats? Or could forced installation of government AI in systems be considered a 3rd amendment violation?

Re: Can Europe train a frontier AI model on the compute it owns?

#282
post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LLMs are a “nice to have” blows my mind. LLMs power autonomous drones that kill real people in real wars. Coding agents are the primary way people code. That and we get a GPT4->5 jump every 18 months. Are we on the same planet?

LLMs conduct strikes on children which a human may not have done. so wow, you got a frontier model but you lost something there in the process.

Why are we missing the point here: LLMs are of major geopolitical significance. Autonomous drones kill children, now what? Would you rather have a home grown frontier model capability to defend yourself? Or would you prefer to rely on the good graces of tech CEOs?

Re: Can Europe train a frontier AI model on the compute it owns?

#283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's certainly a good question. On the idealistic side it's the right choice, people should have the right to have a say in their own data since it's implicitly copyrighted. GDPR has done wonders to prevent careless personal data leaks that are so common in the US, and other kinds of abuse. In a more practical view though I'm not sure if it'll do anything to stop job replacement from automation as such. Most corporat…

> GDPR has done wonders to prevent careless personal data leaks that are so common in the US, and other kinds of abuse. Has it? I still have to see evidence of that. What GDPR definitely has achieved, though, is people engaging in pointless busywork out of fear some busybody is trying to have them fined for being in violation of GDPR. > In a more practical view though I'm not sure if it'll do anything to stop job rep…

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Re: Can Europe train a frontier AI model on the compute it owns?

#284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> GDPR has done wonders to prevent careless personal data leaks that are so common in the US, and other kinds of abuse. Has it? I still have to see evidence of that. What GDPR definitely has achieved, though, is people engaging in pointless busywork out of fear some busybody is trying to have them fined for being in violation of GDPR. > In a more practical view though I'm not sure if it'll do anything to stop job rep…

Hmm well the practical point of GDPR is twofold from where I see it: the process being too convoluted and risky turns off some corporations from storing data entirely (maybe it's not complicated enough yet in that regard), and the deletion requests where I can send anyone holding my data an email saying they have to delete it all. I do it sometimes, maybe it's just a placebo and half I secretly hope it is because onc…

> the process being too convoluted and risky turns off some corporations from storing data entirely (maybe it's not complicated enough yet in that regard)

This is a common misconception by people who never had to deal with GDPR in a business capacity (including the politicians who have caused this mess). Corporations either simply don't care or they have their legal department deal with this. It's the small companies and self-employed solo entrepreneurs that suffer.

As for the economic ramifications, there will certainly be a massive short-term upheaval. However, going all Luddite - or even just slowing down the process locally - won't help. Regulation doesn't generate wealth, after all (although EU politicians would like you to believe that), and for something like UBI we need massive wealth generation.

Re: Can Europe train a frontier AI model on the compute it owns?

#285
post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And what good does it do? The EU cannot speak in a single voice - there is no foreign minister, no defense minister, no whatever minister. Nor can Switzerland. And still it is one of the best country world wide both in term of living and economically. Distributed federal power like Switzerland trades quick decision making for resilience. If it might look up 'messy' on the surface, it is in fact a quality. A very va…

I've never seen the Swiss foreign minister being contradicted by another minister or by an official from a Canton. But the EU foreign minister can be contradicted by basically any country president/prime minister or their foreign ministers if it says something that is not aligned with every other EU member.

> being contradicted by another minister or by an official from a Canton.

Then you are misinformed.

Because it happens continuously.

Canton executive argumenting again "conseil fédéral".

Local Syndic (Mayor) arguing against Canton decision.

Local parlement trying to address or delay legislation or arguing against Berne ones.

Just open a random news paper.

This is democracy, like it or not.

Re: Can Europe train a frontier AI model on the compute it owns?

#286
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EU legislature is an actual corpus of laws. It’s imperfect, but it’s arguably better than having a guy that can block a model or threat companies because they crossed him.

No it's not. Europe has no models to even block. The US has a guy who occasionally can screw things up for a few weeks, but who will be gone in a while. You have it upside down: the innovation and the stuff is the valuable thing, the laws are there to help us organize ourselves a bit after the fact. They're always a secondary concern to the extent that the vast majority of civilization is working with one another, do…

> The US has a guy who occasionally can screw things up for a few weeks, but who will be gone in a while.

We have all just realized that the American Constitution is the jurisprudential analogue of the Albanian virus (https://github.com/AriBjornOlafsson/Albanian-Virus). I wouldn’t take it for granted that what has happened up to now, before this new twist, will continue to happen in a world where being Trump’s friend is enough to change the NASDAQ listing rules.

Re: Can Europe train a frontier AI model on the compute it owns?

#287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US Constitution has aged pretty well. Some things in there don't seem as relevant today, but some are more relevant now than ever.

https://theonion.com/third-amendment-rights-group-celebrates...

Yeah the 3rd is what I had in mind as not so relevant

Re: Can Europe train a frontier AI model on the compute it owns?

#288
post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that is the difference in philosophy between the European and American mindset, and why America actually innovates.

That's why American will become a full dystopia before Europe.

Europe isn't a dystopia because it could import American innovation. There's a reason Germany car manufacturers were never going to electrify by themselves.

Re: Can Europe train a frontier AI model on the compute it owns?

#289
post #31

Absolutely not, even if Europe was given all of the compute in the world. The issues are much much worse. Starting at "data privacy", continuing with the "EU AI Act" and just an overall mindset of regulation and German angst. Many structures in the EU actively prevent and fight against innovation. Oftentimes more subtle but the consequences stay the same. If you ever had to use one of the "sovereign" AI provides such…

We can debate the details and implementation but EU legislature is, at least in spirit, trying to protect human rights. What does it say about progress that the same laws that protect human rights also stifle innovation?

this is true, but in practice the EU and its local governments have a giant issue with incompetence when it comes to the specifics of regulation. it's overregulated and sometimes even in such ways that it doesn't even achieve the protection it seeks to generate, so a net loss in both directions.

Re: Can Europe train a frontier AI model on the compute it owns?

#290
post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never seen the Swiss foreign minister being contradicted by another minister or by an official from a Canton. But the EU foreign minister can be contradicted by basically any country president/prime minister or their foreign ministers if it says something that is not aligned with every other EU member.

> being contradicted by another minister or by an official from a Canton. Then you are misinformed. Because it happens continuously . Canton executive argumenting again "conseil fédéral". Local Syndic (Mayor) arguing against Canton decision. Local parlement trying to address or delay legislation or arguing against Berne ones. Just open a random news paper. This is democracy, like it or not.

You misunderstood me. If Kaja Kallas says "the EU will do X", then the French or Spanish foreign ministers can say "no, we will not do that". So the EU does not do X because it upset a big country, it will maybe do X-Y or not do it at all if X is dependent on the money spent by France or Spain, or some of their facilities or whatever.

In your example, the mayor can criticize the canton decision, but he cannot do anything about it. That's the difference.

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