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SpaceX, Other Mega IPOs Denied Fast Index Entry by S&P

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Re: SpaceX, Other Mega IPOs Denied Fast Index Entry by S&P

#281
This does seem sensible and I’m glad most of my holdings are in s&p funds.

Just to play devils advocate though, what are the downsides of not having 3 of the biggest 10 in the world not in your fund, if you hold to track broad market performance? Wouldn’t that have a massive blind spot on AI related growth?

Whether or not I personally think ai is over hyped or not, the whole point of these ETFs is to make sure I don’t get a say in the matter, since I’m a terrible stock picker

Re: SpaceX, Other Mega IPOs Denied Fast Index Entry by S&P

#282
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CRSP is changing the index VTI tracks

CRSP has had fast track rules for quite a while. They changed their minimum float rule for these mega IPOs with low float.

Sorry so CRSP will be fast-tracking SpaceX? I just checked and my Vanguard has 50% in that so would like to understand how exposed...

Re: SpaceX, Other Mega IPOs Denied Fast Index Entry by S&P

#283
post #9

This seems a sensible thing to do. If you change the rules on how things end up on your index, you force everyone using that index to reevaluate it. Your index is now perceived as more volatile (and probably is), and all the finance people need to reevaluate the risk of their index funds and decide if it is now 'growth', 'high growth' or whatever bucket it belongs in based on the new risk profile. And then all the po…

Sp500 is not passive. Keeps updating the rules every few years. https://www.reddit.com/r/stocks/comments/1tvuhgy/sp500_100_y...

See top relevant changes in 100 years

Re: SpaceX, Other Mega IPOs Denied Fast Index Entry by S&P

#284
post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(deleted)

If you pick stocks with the correct weight to track the index, you're effectively running an index fund. And so you don't have to rebalance to keep tracking the index.

What are you talking about? Those index fund are constantly rebalancing. This is why you buy an index fund, so you don’t have to constantly rebalance your portfolio.

Re: SpaceX, Other Mega IPOs Denied Fast Index Entry by S&P

#285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. There is this undercurrent of The End Times everywhere, that this is it. This is the end of ... everything that was. When in fact it is not the end times, and the people at those indexes want to exist longer than SpaceX.

Index investors often believe that indexes work well because they average everything out. The reality is something like 96% of public companies underperform treasuries. ref: https://paretoinvestor.substack.com/p/why-96-of-stocks-are-d...

That blog post is garbage and fails to accurately convey the paper it is based on.

>I rely on the Center for Research in Securities Prices (CRSP) monthly stock return database, which contains all common stocks listed on the NYSE, Amex, and NASDAQ exchanges. Of all monthly common stock returns contained in the CRSP database from 1926 to 2016, only 47.8% are larger than the one-month Treasury rate in the same month. In fact, less than half of monthly CRSP common stock returns are positive. When focusing on stocks’ full lifetimes (from the beginning of the sample in 1926 or first appearance in CRSP through the 2016 end of the sample or delisting from CRSP), just 42.6% of common stocks, slightly less than three out of seven, have a buy-and-hold return (inclusive of reinvested dividends) that exceeds the return to holding one-month Treasury Bills over the matched horizon. More than half of CRSP common stocks deliver negative lifetime returns. The single most frequent outcome (when returns are rounded to the nearest 5%) observed for individual common stocks over their full lifetimes is a loss of 100%.

>Individual common stocks tend to have rather short lives. The median time that a stock is listed on the CRSP database between 1926 and 2016 is seven and a half years. To assess whether individual stocks generate positive returns over the full ninety years of available CRSP data, I conduct bootstrap simulations. In particular, I assess the likelihood that a strategy that holds one stock selected at random during each month from 1926 to 2016 would have generated an accumulated 90-year return (ignoring any transaction costs) that exceeds various benchmarks. In light of the well-documented small-firm effect (whereby smaller firms earn higher average returns than large, as originally documented by Banz, 1980) it might have been anticipated that individual stocks would tend to outperform the value-weighted market. In fact, repeating the random selection process many times, I find that the single stock strategy underperformed the value-weighted market over the full ninety years in ninety six percent of the simulations. The single-stock strategy underperformed the one-month Treasury bill over the 1926 to 2016 period in seventy three percent of the simulations.

>The fact that the overall stock market generates long term returns sufficiently large to be referred to as a puzzle, while the majority of individual stocks fail to even match Treasury bills, can be attributed to the fact that the distribution of stock returns is positively skewed. Simply put, large positive returns to a few stocks offset the modest or negative returns to more typical stocks.

https://obj.portfolioconstructionforum.edu.au/articles_persp...

Compare this to the blog post:

>The implication is devastating for index fund orthodoxy: When you own a broad market index, you’re mathematically forcing yourself to hold the 96.6% of stocks that create no value while simultaneously diluting your exposure to the 3.4% that generate all returns.

The professor just told you that investing in any individual stock is a terrible decision and that investing in more stocks means having greater exposure to the stocks that do net a return, creating a puzzle, where diversification doesn't reduce yields, in fact it did the opposite: it increases the yields.

There's also a general fallacy that any index (directly referred to as index orthodoxy) has to be a "broad market index", when in reality there are many competing indices. If someone came up with an index that would follow any investment strategy the blog post suggests and it turns out to work reliably, then people would switch part of their portfolio to that index. "Index othrodoxy" would prevail, because people just need a better index rather than abandoning the idea of an index altogether.

It's also difficult to reconcile with the fact that after fees, most active funds have failed to net higher returns to their investors. This random blog post is basically delivering an active investment strategy on a silver platter that will make fund managers and the people investing into it rich, is this believable? Consider that it's written in a "shocking" AI style, trying to sell you something.

Funnily enough, the ad in the middle of the blog post "The U.S. Treasury collapse is HERE!" is incompatible with the premise of the article, that 96% of stocks are worse than treasuries.

>But even if we use the more moderate 80/20 framing, the strategic implication is identical: If 80% of market returns come from 20% of stocks, why would you construct a portfolio that treats all five hundred stocks in the S&P 500 equally?

The thing is, you don't have to do that, like at all. There are indices like the S&P 500 Pure Value and S&P 500 Enhanced Value that are known to outperform the regular S&P 500. The problem is that they have done so over the long term and long term really means long term. There have been decades where they underperform.

Also, the article is three times as long as it needs to be, it's clearly AI generated.

Edit: Invesco renamed their ETF to S&P 500 Concentrated QVM.

Re: SpaceX, Other Mega IPOs Denied Fast Index Entry by S&P

#286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to say I have an opinion one way or another, but why do you think that SpaceX odds to have a successful IPO is lower now?

Not OP but I will weigh in. The numbers for SpaceX were not looking great, they are burning cash faster than Starship crashing into the Indian ocean. The idea was that with a fast indexing, this would be mostly irrelevant as retirement funds would automatically buy into the IPO after 15 days thus bolstering the company before any sanity would prevail on the markets. Now that they have to wait a year for that point, t…

> retirement funds would automatically buy into the IPO after 15 days

This is a misrepresentation of the rule change. The proposed S&P500 rule change was to decrease S&P inclusion time from 12 months to 6 months, not to 15 days.

Re: SpaceX, Other Mega IPOs Denied Fast Index Entry by S&P

#287
post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(deleted)

If you pick stocks with the correct weight to track the index, you're effectively running an index fund. And so you don't have to rebalance to keep tracking the index.

1 If you never rebalance, you're never adding new stocks to the index, nor removing stocks that do not belong to it anymore.

2 You need to rebalance to take corporate events into account: new stocks, buybacks, dividends, etc...

Re: SpaceX, Other Mega IPOs Denied Fast Index Entry by S&P

#288
post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a single index… that doesn’t say anything about the country and its systems

Not just any index, it's the most important index.

Which doesn’t change the fact that says nothing about US society and systems…

Re: SpaceX, Other Mega IPOs Denied Fast Index Entry by S&P

#290
post #258

What a pleasant surprise. I was positive S&P would get strongarmed into the bamboozle like Nasdaq but it seems they have a bit more integrity. Good for them.

Didn't Nasdaq change its rules specifically in order to get SpaceX to list on Nasdaq? Not really sure why other funds would follow them since SpaceX can't list on all of them.

They changed the rules to let SpaceX into the Nasdaq 100, which is kinda like the S&P 500 for people who drive Cybertrucks.
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