Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well obviously I'm not talking about buying over MSRP.
And I am. Given those models aren't sold at MSRP anymore and are primarily being sought for inference, it's apropos of an article on the costs of inference on Apple Silicon.
Apple Silicon costs more than OpenRouter
281–290 of 322 posts
Re: Apple Silicon costs more than OpenRouter
#282Earlier quoted context omitted.
> in addition to receiving LLM output, you have also received a laptop in exchange for your money And, since it's a Mac, whenever you're ready to upgrade it'll still have a fairly decent resale value.
How is it going to have decent resale when you bought it for $15,000 over MSRP because of a time-limited LLM mass-psychosis? https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=apple+mac+studio+m3+ult... I think you'd need to tinker quickly, realize anything with CUDA (other than the awful DGX Spark) is better for learning, the prefill is killing your ability to actually run models large enough to justify that RAM, and then cure yo…
Re: Apple Silicon costs more than OpenRouter
#283Earlier quoted context omitted.
> You’re literally describing all companies. No, not quite. It really comes down to opex vs capex and the depreciation schedule for your investment. Software development is typically categorized as capex, on a 3-5 year depreciation schedule. You assume the software you write today will be generating value for you that long. If a big, expensive model training project only gives you value for a year or less, that is no…
No, the IRS made that change a while back as part of the TCJA but that’s been reverted in the OBBBA. If you build something and never touch it, sure that should probably be capex you have to depreciate. But if you’re investing continuously in it over time, I don’t see how it’s anything other than opex - there’s nothing being depreciated because you’re constantly improving it. Automobile manufacturers don’t have to co…
You're saying no one capitalizes software development costs anymore? The rest of the internet disagrees strongly. The finance team at my employer would disagree strongly. Accountants talk to dev teams all the time about how many hours went into new development vs maintenance. It's not just a temporary IRS rule. It's GAAP.
It's the same in other industries. In your example, if labor went into building a whole new assembly line that pays itself off over several years, capex. If it just goes into building products to sell, opex.
Re: Apple Silicon costs more than OpenRouter
#284Earlier quoted context omitted.
Right. Qwen 3.6 45b (6 parameter) runs on a commodity 5090, which, if you're into video games, you probably already have one of. It is entirely usable for most code generation tasks. (Not all, but most.) Likewise, DeepSeek V4 Flash is quite accessible on local models, with DwarfStar 4 making it easy to run on a 96GB MacBook. There's nothing wrong with paying for inference, but local models bring up some pretty amazin…
Ah yes, most people who play any sort of video game own a $2000 graphics card :p
Doesn't everyone have at least one of them on their yacht?
Re: Apple Silicon costs more than OpenRouter
#285Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sure. And there’s Lyft and Uber and plenty of others. And Grubhub and DoorDash and uber and how many others. And I don’t even fucking remember how many electric fucking scooter companies, I’m practically falling over scooters! I’m sure they aren’t earning market share by selling at a loss either.
Uber has been profitable since 2023.
And it was founded in 2009, 14 years without turning a profit
Re: Apple Silicon costs more than OpenRouter
#286Earlier quoted context omitted.
And I am. Given those models aren't sold at MSRP anymore and are primarily being sought for inference, it's apropos of an article on the costs of inference on Apple Silicon.
https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/mac-studio/m3-ultra-chip-... https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/macbook-pro/16-inch-space...
Maybe before double posting these links, you should have considered why the eBay sold listings are for thousands over MSRP.
You can't order the Mac Studio with RAM upgrades anymore, and the demand propping up prices is for AI inference
Re: Apple Silicon costs more than OpenRouter
#287But I want there to be an incentive to develop smaller, private models that can run on local machines that I own. I want that business model to win.
If it costs me slightly more in the short term, but I don't depend on any providers' price gouging as soon as I fully depend on them, I will consider it a win.
Re: Apple Silicon costs more than OpenRouter
#288Earlier quoted context omitted.
Plus your privacy.
Minus opportunity cost and depreciation
It can get quite complex, for me the feeling of "I built this", and then watch as it makes stuff from the power generated on my solar panels is also worth a lot to me. The sheer coolness of it.
Re: Apple Silicon costs more than OpenRouter
#289Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is far from a universal truth: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/upshot/buy-rent-cal... Real estate is only a clearly good investment if you ignore opportunity cost.
Real estate is generally a "good" investment as it's considered a relatively safe way to get significant leverage. 5x leverage in the case of a 20% deposit, or even up to 20x leverage with countries that allow for 5% deposits (New Zealand). In addition, the interest payments almost always end up being near the rent the owner would have paid, so mortgage payments are higher, but that increase is generally (and quickly…
> relatively safe way to get significant leverage
Re: Apple Silicon costs more than OpenRouter
#290Earlier quoted context omitted.
It never fails, there's always someone who trots this thing out. We had bought our house, and then had to move and decided to rent. I was APPALLED that they wanted me to fill out an APPLICATION form, where they would decide my worth, and let me know if we would be allowed to live there. When buying a house, my cash was as good as anyone elses'. And then the management company would come inside my house to inspect tha…
> I was APPALLED that they wanted me to fill out an APPLICATION form, where they would decide my worth, and let me know if we would be allowed to live there. When buying a house, my cash was as good as anyone elses'. House sellers receive offers from buyers, sometimes including letters, and can choose to sell to any of them (or none of them), whether or not those offers are higher than the listed price. It's not so d…
Why would a house seller accept any offer that not the highest total price?