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Where to buy a non-Apple, non-Google smartphone

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Re: Where to buy a non-Apple, non-Google smartphone

#281

Post by microtonal »

tensor wrote: post #161
tadfisher wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Progress, as in, you've gained the privilege of third parties tracking every payment and every bill you've split with friends, sure. Let's be realistic; payment services are convenient, but not advantageous in every single way.

I don’t have an issue with my bank tracking my purchases. In fact I like it. Not everyone wants to live in a constant state of looking over your shoulder. If we’ve reached that point the problem is not the banks, but the other parties. Going back to old technology is not a solution I want. Regulating the problem areas would be better.

Fully agree, I like not having to deal with cache. Fully digital payments and contactless payment are so much nicer than cash (in my opinion). I just want to be able to do contactless payments on my GrapheneOS phone and not get locked out of it because Google decided it's a good way of forcing out competition.

Re: Where to buy a non-Apple, non-Google smartphone

#282

Post by microtonal »

michaelt wrote: post #61
The_President wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Windows phone didn't make it due to Microsoft failing to compete, not the press. Not many tech products exite me less than the concept of a Microsoft Windows 365 Copilot Cortana phone.

> The Windows phone didn't make it due to Microsoft failing to compete As I recall Microsoft threw quite a lot of resources into Windows Phone. My then-employer had apps for Android and Apple, and Microsoft literally paid for us to port it to Windows Phone. Microsoft brought Nokia, who had dominated the industry in the late 1990s and early 2000s. And Microsoft was early to the mobile party too - you could get an iPaq…

It was Microsofts fault. I had a Windows Phone just to play with it (besides an iPhone), Nokia Lumia. Just when Windows Phone 7 was getting some traction, Microsoft axed it and rebooted the ecosystem. None of the popular phones that ran Windows Phone 7 got the Windows Phone 8 update. To make it worse, Windows Phone 8 apps were not compatible with Windows Phone 7.

So Microsoft basically said: "as a thanks for being an early adopter, you know have to buy a completely new phone again". For reference, Windows Phone 7 was initially released in October 2010 and Windows Phone 8 in October 2012. After that many (technically-inclined) early adopters left.

Microsoft destroyed Windows Phone.

Re: Where to buy a non-Apple, non-Google smartphone

#283

Post by microtonal »

smeggysmeg wrote: post #58
han1 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

/e/ OS lied about the security and how "degoogled" the phone really is because it sends data to Google for MicroG

Only to the extent you use Micro-G, and Micro-G mitigates a large portion of the Google data harvesting. The built in App Lounge does not require a Google login to pull downloads from the Play Store, so it's possible to remain entirely anonymous to Google.

It's not, it starts sending all kinds of information to Google from the very first time you unlock the phone: https://www.kuketz-blog.de/e-datenschutzfreundlich-bedeutet-...

They also run proprietary Google blobs in a privileged process to pass basic Play Integrity and give certain Google apps higher privileges than the normal Android sandbox.

Aside from Google, Fairphone 6 (both the stock OS and /e/OS) ship with proprietary, Chinese TCL blobs for image processing (most likely also privileged).

Besides that, /e/OS often uses way outdated Linux kernel versions and firmware bundles with many known CVEs and old major Android versions, having many unfixed vulnerabilities that are not marked high/critical (ASBs only give you high/critical fixes).

Fairphone does not have a secure enclave, only TrustZone. So, secrets can be extracted using frequently-found side-channel accounts. The lack of a secure enclave + the many available CVEs, it will probably fail within seconds when using data extraction tools like Cellebrite, even when the phone is locked. So better not bring your phone to demonstrations or border crossings.

But hey, it doesn't matter, because Murena's CEO says security hardening is only for spies and pedophiles.

(Friends don't recommend friends Fairphone or /e/OS.)

Re: Where to buy a non-Apple, non-Google smartphone

#284

Post by microtonal »

anjel wrote: post #224

So what happens when Law Enforcement plugs into your non apple, non Google Phones and runs its forensic apps on it?

They are all most likely trivially compromised. Most of these phones do not have secure enclaves (which e.g. the iPhone had since 2013 and Google Pixel for ages as well) and are usually way behind with Linux security patches, firmware security patches, Android patches outside ASBs. For instance some of the alternatives in the article are routinely 2-5 years behind on Linux and firmware security updates.

Re: Where to buy a non-Apple, non-Google smartphone

#285

Post by The_President »

ghaff wrote: post #63
michaelt wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Windows phone didn't make it due to Microsoft failing to compete As I recall Microsoft threw quite a lot of resources into Windows Phone. My then-employer had apps for Android and Apple, and Microsoft literally paid for us to port it to Windows Phone. Microsoft brought Nokia, who had dominated the industry in the late 1990s and early 2000s. And Microsoft was early to the mobile party too - you could get an iPaq…

Zune was also... not good. I was given one. It was defective. I think I got a warranty replacement and gave it to a friend who basically never used it as far as I know. Nadella's Azure play basically saved Microsoft in my opinion. They totally blew mobile and desktop Windows and Office were declining markets and XBox was a sideshow.

I long for something like the first gen Zune that just worked. Great aesthetics and screen for the time. Replaced with an iPod Touch which was nice but entirely forgettable.

Re: Where to buy a non-Apple, non-Google smartphone

#286

Post by sillyfluke »

tabiv wrote: post #226
dandandandan2 wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nowadays, you can no longer exist in society without a phone Hyperbole doesn’t help. I’m a 44 year old former software engineer now with a modest social media following (100k per platform). I don’t have a phone. I’ve never had a smart phone, last dumb phone gone in 2015. I have to hassle my bank to let me use email instead of SMS for 2FA, and I hand jot notes for driving directions sometimes. Otherwise, I’m immense…

A big issue for me was events that require digital only tickets. I haven't been able to work around that yet.

If I have an issue with my phone when travelling I usually tell them beforehand and luckily all of them have figured out a workaround thus far.

Re: Where to buy a non-Apple, non-Google smartphone

#287

Post by dangus »

microtonal wrote: post #263
abc123abc123 wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the way! I do not have a smartphone. I print maps, use email, print boarding cards, do my banking and shopping with a web browser, pay with cash or a debit card. I think people have been brain washed to believe they can no longer live life without being enslaved by a surveillance device. Lost? Ask for directions. Need a map? Go to a hotel or a tourist center, or print one in advance.

The thing is, most people do want to have a smartphone. Either because living without requires an amount of effort they are not interested in or because they actually like using a smartphone for certain things. Personally, I like having the web and maps accessible from the palm of my hand everywhere I go. So, the solution is not to suggest that people should not use a smartphone. That ship has sailed. I agree that it…

Yeah, this whole discussion thread is essentially irrelevant to the underlying topic because of exactly what you said.

It’s just the typical HN humble brag thread about being present and owning no technology.

Awesome that these folks don’t own a phone and give their landline to businesses. I love that for them.

But I like my smartphone, GPS directions, digital wallets, streaming music, etc. I just don’t want it to be controlled by two companies. I want there to be a healthy market of multiple options including open source alternatives.

This for me has been achieved on my desktop and laptop but not yet on my smartphone.

Re: Where to buy a non-Apple, non-Google smartphone

#288

Post by Barbing »

lloeki wrote: post #155
Barbing wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Swiss privacy phones? https://www.punkt.ch What subscription?

Look at Punkt MC03 + AphyOS, scroll down to "Subscription: 2 years free of charge" and expand. https://www.punkt.ch/products/mc03-premium-secure-smartphone There's a little bit - but barely - more about AphyOS in the FAQ if you scroll way down.

No way they employ a minor dark pattern with their cookie pop-up

YIKES tying privacy hardware to a subscription. Maybe they’re two-year burners then, like a partially inverted warranty.

Gradual feature deactivation should be fine if it’s incredibly transparent. So they lose too many sales if they just charge the whole lifetime customer value right upfront, and subscription is the solution.

Thank you for that. Well I do wish them luck!

Re: Where to buy a non-Apple, non-Google smartphone

#290

Post by ProllyInfamous »

tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #76

The challenge isn't buying it, the challenge is being able to do phone things with it. Nowadays, you can no longer exist in society without a phone. Most things will work but it takes one critical service that doesn't have a viable workaround, and you're forced to buy (and possibly carry) a "mainstream" phone just for that. Banking, government, authentication, postal service and public transit apps are just some of t…

>you can no longer exist in society without a phone.

I do just fine without.

But certainly there are additional challenges. In my city, for example, there has been a massive shift towards phone-pay parking... which excludes my paying for it — still waiting for my citation (to challenge in court).

Carrying my pager with me is the only reason people will pretend-believe I'm actually phoneless. Many have never seen beeper technology, its one-way advancedness.

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