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I'm going back to writing code by hand

blog.k10s.dev

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Re: I'm going back to writing code by hand

#281

Post by nixon_why69 »

meetingthrower wrote: post #273
nixon_why69 wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO the hate has always been for clueless managers, especially clueless yet demanding managers. Managing an LLM for coding is different, try being clueless and demanding and see how far you get.

So you think "good" management translates? I actually think it very much does. Clear expectations, providing right context and "the why", quick and clear feedback loops, intervening early when they are going off track, not micromanaging too much so they can actually accomplish more. It's all very similar.

Yes it very much does but managing humans is still very different.

Understanding your domain, setting clear expectations and understanding limitations and how much ambiguity your people/robots can handle are all good management techniques, they translate.

But the nature of working with an always-on flattery machine vs humans that can exceed your expectations while also being sources of infinite drama and frustration are still fundamentally different. The blind spot is being subsceptible to the flattery machine and forgetting how much you relied on good people challenging you. The benefit is, of course, not having to deal with humans.

Re: I'm going back to writing code by hand

#282

Post by hansmayer »

sevenzero wrote: post #247
spockz wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you were tired of writing forms yourself, had you looked at https://jsonforms.io/ ? Just specify the the data you need, or extract it from the api spec and go. Display the form uniformly every time across your site. No need to burn AI time.

I typically avoid any most abstractions or third party dependencies. Yea it could be neat, but I still need a lot of custom logic here and there. Same reason I avoid stuff like GraphQL. A little update: upon viewing the page on phone, for me the "comitter" field in the demo is going out of bounds... Really not speaking for their product.

> I typically avoid any most abstractions or third party dependencies

Right, so depending on an LLM makes perfect sense in that case, thanks for clarifying :)

Re: I'm going back to writing code by hand

#283

Post by gylterud »

forgotaccount3 wrote: post #269
IdiotSavage wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, basically you need to micro-manage it. Where are your 10x gains now? And is it fun to work like that?

> you need to micro-manage it. It is significantly easier to micro-manage an AI than a suite of junior developers. The AI doesn't replace a principal engineer, it's replacing junior and weaker senior developers who need stories broken down extremely concisely to be able to get anything done. The time it takes to break down a story such that a junior through weak senior developers can pick it up and execute it well wo…

Juniors learn. Some juniors are potential good seniors. Over time they will internalise good architecture and be able to make good judgments on their own.

Micromanaging LLMs is like having Dory from Finding Nemo as your colleague. You find ways to communicate, but there is no learning going on.

Re: I'm going back to writing code by hand

#284

Post by dzonga »

djeastm wrote: post #275

When it was Copilot tab-completing lines, people would say, "yea, but you still have to make sure you're the one writing the whole functions". Then when it was completing functions, people would say, "yeah, but you still have to make sure you're the one writing the logic around the functions" Then when it was completing the logic around the functions, people would say, "yeah, but you still have to make sure you're th…

the autocomplete can be shit some times.

Re: I'm going back to writing code by hand

#285

Post by oblio »

cultofmetatron wrote: post #218
oblio wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the ship has sailed on my handcoding at work. I'm really curious if we'll seesaw once AI costs go up 10x.

I've been relying primarily on deepseek-v4-flash for 90% of my work. It sips tokens. that model will run on 128gb. not a cheap configuration for a consumer but within the budget of a developer relying on it for work. Ive only been using kimi 2.5 and deepseek pro for reviewing PRs for security issues. less than 10% of my workflow requires a full powered frontier model. I think the issue is overblown by people who thin…

I'd want to agree with everything you say.

However everything in this field is cargo culting. We have absolutely no way to quantify productivity in the real world.

We've had advanced programming languages backed by advanced programming language theory for decades and the most used/ran programming languages in the world are C, PHP and JavaScript, languages held together by duct tape or in the case of C, programing language theory from the 60s.

We have a super minimal JavaScript runtime in the browser to avoid a bloated standard library and then people invent things like leftpad. At the same time basically every major website in the world serves mega bytes of tracking and ad serving libraries.

We all "know" AI makes coders more productive but nobody can do the equivalent of a clinical trial for a major new drug.

Re: I'm going back to writing code by hand

#286

Post by drchickensalad »

adrianN wrote: post #128
nikau wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Time will tell if outages and defect resolution sky rocket or if ai can deal with it

Does that matter that much in practice? I bet lots of costumers are okay with software that crashes 10x as much if it costs 10x less. There already is a ton of shitty software that still sells.

> if it costs 10x less

This will not happen. Nobody desires to give that up. Also AI does not deliver even remotely that much true value multiplier

Re: I'm going back to writing code by hand

#287

Post by vrganj »

djeastm wrote: post #275

When it was Copilot tab-completing lines, people would say, "yea, but you still have to make sure you're the one writing the whole functions". Then when it was completing functions, people would say, "yeah, but you still have to make sure you're the one writing the logic around the functions" Then when it was completing the logic around the functions, people would say, "yeah, but you still have to make sure you're th…

As somebody with a colleague that is using AI agents to "complete features", let me tell you, it is not. It is taking that dude so much longer to prompt and reprompt and then prompt again until it is anywhere close to something that passes review than it would take any competent mid-level engineer to just build the whole thing with some autocomplete help.

Have people's standards for quality just completely vanished in the pursuit of the shiny new thing? Is that guy doing something wrong?

That has also been my experience with this sort of thing fwiw, which is why I gave up and do more of a class-by-class pairing with an LLM as a workable middle ground.

Re: I'm going back to writing code by hand

#288

Post by black_knight »

sirwhinesalot wrote: post #277
IdiotSavage wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, basically you need to micro-manage it. Where are your 10x gains now? And is it fun to work like that?

This is actually what I do. I'm extremely picky about the code and force the LLM to rewrite it 1000x times until it is basically exactly what I want. You might be wondering what is the point when it would be faster for me to just write the code myself? I have ADHD and for whatever reason telling the LLM what to do instead of doing it myself bypasses the task avoidance patterns and/or focus problems I tend to suffer f…

I have used LLMs a couple of times to get started on something. I don’t have ADHD, so this is not a regular occurrence for me. But when I have tried this, I have always found the LLM solution so horrible that it instantly inspired me to do it myself. So, in that sense it worked, I got unstuck, but no LLM garbage makes it into the project.

Re: I'm going back to writing code by hand

#289

Post by m3kw9 »

Greed really comes into play when using LLM's to write code, is so easy to say YES when this cool feature where 2 years ago would have taken a week, now is 1 day or even one prompt. The "Say no" skill that Steve Jobs said was important is gonna be needed on an minute by minute basis.

Re: I'm going back to writing code by hand

#290

Post by raincole »

djeastm wrote: post #275

When it was Copilot tab-completing lines, people would say, "yea, but you still have to make sure you're the one writing the whole functions". Then when it was completing functions, people would say, "yeah, but you still have to make sure you're the one writing the logic around the functions" Then when it was completing the logic around the functions, people would say, "yeah, but you still have to make sure you're th…

The "people" in your hypothetical story have been wrong the whole time. The correct attitude is:

When AI can complete lines, you still have to read and understand the code.

When AI can complete whole functions, you still have to read and understand the code.

When AI can complete features and tickets, you still have to read and understand the code.

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