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Trump fires NSF's oversight board

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Re: Trump fires NSF's oversight board

#281

Post by kelseyfrog »

juniperus wrote: post #276
SomaticPirate wrote: post #71

Every American here has allowed the quickest decline of a superpower in history. The damage to our country is irreparable and going to result in a worse life for generations to come

The superpower built on the US dollar fiat monopoly that was enforced by military lead? The one that Trump is trying to reassert in a misguided attempt at preventing a decline in US quality of life down to a more realistic level? You seem to think Trump is the cause of this, and not the world gaining the ability to dictate their own affairs and not be the victim of CIA global chess games and other neocolonialist mach…

US financiers enjoy the benefits of the global dollar, and have immense political influence.

What's completely incomprehensible is that the people suffering consequences of the Triffin Dilemma double down on the US dollar as the reserve currency. If they really wanted to bring back manufacturing, jobs, and compete with China, we'd give up the dollars special status. It's amazing how easily it is to misdirect blame to immigrants, libs, etc. Absolutely wild.

Re: Trump fires NSF's oversight board

#282

Post by juniperus »

xethos wrote: post #280
juniperus wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in academia, so NSF cuts are very misguided in my view, and hopefully will be reversed in the next administration. But the first two sentences of your post immediately contradict one another. You say America is in a state of lawlessness, and then immediately describe the American legal system. So that's exactly what following the law in America has always meant. America is a common law country, not a civil law co…

War can only legally be declared by Congress. America is currently at war with Iran. Is the current war legal? I would say no. That doesn't mean it's not happening, just that the law was ignored.

well that specific scenario is its own mess of competing authorities. Theoretically, the president is commander in chief, so he controls the armed forces. But congress has the authority to make a declaration of war. But the president as commander in chief can direct troops for national security or other purposes. Military action can happen without a war being declared. It becomes a bit of a game of semantics because the argument is that war is different than military action, then the legal interpretations of words and whatnot becomes the focus. Courts tend to not really go too deep into this issue, I suppose. It's something of a gray area. So the counterpoint is that the law wasn't ignored, it was interpreted differently, because of this concept that military action isn't necessarily war. Courts usually will spell out these interpretations more clearly and refine the law, but when it comes to war, I think they don't want to litigate that too quickly.

Re: Trump fires NSF's oversight board

#283

Post by JuniperMesos »

2ndorderthought wrote: post #137
fionic wrote: post #87

There’s a lot of political commentary in these threads about how dumb the admin is this and that, sarcasm, etc. but is anyone able to share why this is such a truly beneficial org to our country? I’m just out of the loop on this and I’m genuinely asking, I have never really heard of them. But by the reactions in the comments they’re like the most blessed org of our country and accelerate innovation and advancement of…

So... This is worth a personal Google search on your part. This organization is a large part of the life blood for all research and development in the United States. It funds research, students, projects. You know how the US had people from all over the world trying to get into our schools, and how they regularly figured things out important economic healthcare and other discoveries by being ahead of the curve? This…

> You know how the US had people from all over the world trying to get into our schools, and how they regularly figured things out important economic healthcare and other discoveries by being ahead of the curve? This group is a huge reason why.

A lot of people from all over the world are trying to get into US schools because it's a way to get a US visa, and legal residency in the US is valuable enough that people are willing to go to great lengths in order to obtain it.

This isn't just a hypothetical, a guy I know from Europe who is currently enrolled in a master's degree program in the US told me outright that the primary motivating factor for him to get a master's degree was because it was the most expedient way for him to get a visa to the US. I know other people who have deliberately enrolled or sought to enroll in higher education programs in other countries they wanted to spend time in, as a way of getting a visa, plus in some cases a stipend from the government of that country.

Certainly some people who attempt to immigrate to the US via the educational system are in fact doing valuable research work - but I think the vast majority of them are not, and I don't really trust the current leadership of the NSF to set up systems that accurately discern between research programs that genuinely benefit the country or the world; and research programs that are actually an excuse to get US visas to smart but ultimately mediocre people from other countries who would prefer to be in the US rather than their own country.

Re: Trump fires NSF's oversight board

#284

Post by [deleted] »

chiefalchemist wrote: post #268
XorNot wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The American voter openly and obviously said "wow. Despite the numerous management failures, more of that please?" People didn't vote for change, they voted for the same thing they had 4 years ago that changed absolutely nothing. To quote Vaas from Far Cry 3: Do you know what the definition of insanity is?

Exactly. They were so frustrated and disgusted by the status quo political mess that Don was still a viable choice. Twice!!! And how did the system respond after the first win? It didn’t. It was same ol’ same ol’, and look what the led to. Blaming Trump for the cluster fuck mess that gave him the opportunity to run and win… Sorry. Absolutely not his fault. I don’t like the guy. But I’m not going to be foolish and bla…

[deleted]

Re: Trump fires NSF's oversight board

#285

Post by [deleted] »

juniperus wrote: post #272
epistasis wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US government is not currently in a state of following the law or constitution. People get fired, and if authority was not there, a lawsuit 9-18 months later might rectify it, and in the meantime the fired employee has moved on. DOGE cuts were extreme, capricious, and the only rhyme or reason was to try to hyperpoliticize the science to meet what people were guessing that Trump would want. On the grant side, they…

I'm in academia, so NSF cuts are very misguided in my view, and hopefully will be reversed in the next administration. But the first two sentences of your post immediately contradict one another. You say America is in a state of lawlessness, and then immediately describe the American legal system. So that's exactly what following the law in America has always meant. America is a common law country, not a civil law co…

[deleted]

Re: Trump fires NSF's oversight board

#286

Post by gitaarik »

qsera wrote: post #218

[flagged]

It is true that you can't easily point out many lies, he's indeed not lying all the time, and he is indeed not stupid, he knows very well how to talk. I must agree that I've also been surprised by his relative intelligence.

But I think ultimately he is a classic politician in the way that he has his own agendas and motivations that he doesn't talk about, but he knows very well how to frame it into a picture that sounds good for the public.

And I think he is actually exceptionally good at it, but also bad at it at the same time. Because yeah he hasn't been very seriously been openly caught for an obvious crime. Well.. apart from being convicted for covering up his sex scandal. But he knows how to persuade a lot of people. And he knows how to play the business game without being caught.

But people that look more closely and critically can see that not all actions add up to what he says, he keeps changing his mind and his talk, and other concerning movements are happening on the background, that when Trump is being confronted with, he goes into denial, defense and even attack.

Next to that, I think his attitude is unprofessional, unkind, unthoughtfull and often even offensive. And I think his attitude is driving an ongoing polarization in society. I feel he is rather dividing the country than uniting it.

Re: Trump fires NSF's oversight board

#287

Post by SXX »

rectang wrote: post #78

Trying to find a silver lining and think positively... Will a future administration have an opportunity to build something new and better from scratch which would not have been possible due to institutional resistance before it was all burnt down?

Institutional longevity is what differs developed countries from failed or failing states. Whole point of having institutions is to make sure rules dont change every 4, 6 or 8 years.

Some amazing new administration can come up with tons of good ideas, but they will only become real institutions if they survive for decades to come. Institutions are not just government agencies, law or people. Tradition and longevity are probably even more important.

Do you want to build a company in a country where all the law, tax code and regulations are replaced with amazing but brand new one every 4 years? Probably not?

And changing rules are much worse for scientific research because most often it span decades or even generations of scientists. People will just choose to go live and work somewhere more stable.

Re: Trump fires NSF's oversight board

#289

Post by notahacker »

dnautics wrote: post #216
notahacker wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

imagine trying to insinuate with a straight face that firing everyone on a funding oversight body because they queried the executive branch bypassing the oversight is somehow going to reduce fraudulent research and grift in state sponsored science...

the existence of a body named X does not imply they were doing X, or doing X well. a better argument would be that trump doing this is possibly toxic because the process of resetting becomes overly political and associated with trump shenanigans. i guess that argument was too sophisticated to make

The possibility a body may have not being doing X perfectly does not mean that anybody should even consider the possibility that centralising X in the hands of the "vaccines cause autism" and "we have different ways of calculating percentages" division of the executive branch instead - the thing that actually happened - is anything other than a bad idea.

Linking Trump's characteristic firing of anybody who questions his actions to a replication crisis he and his acolytes wouldn't be interested in solving even if they had the slightest understanding of it is far too disingenuous an argument to elicit a "sophisticated" response, or indeed anything other than contemptuous dismissal.

Re: Trump fires NSF's oversight board

#290

Post by gitaarik »

qsera wrote: post #225
2ndorderthought wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Troll post.

Look, I choose to be honest and see the response I am getting. Being called a troll. Is it really surprising that I can relate?

That you say that he will win again is kind of trolly, you want Trump for a 3rd presidency? You really want a dictator?
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