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OpenAI backs Illinois bill that would limit when AI labs can be held liable

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Re: OpenAI backs Illinois bill that would limit when AI labs can be held liable

#281
post #66

Quoting the original bill [0]: > "Critical harm" means the death or serious injury of 100 or more people or at least $1,000,000,000 of damages to rights in property caused or materially enabled by a frontier model, through either: (1) the creation or use of a chemical, biological, radiological, or nuclear weapon; or (2) engaging in conduct that: (A) acts with no meaningful human intervention; and (B) would, if commit…

That doesn't say much other than the rules are over in section 15.

To be protected they not only have to publish their security protocol, but adhere to it.

That's not just 'providing a PDF'

That particular section is entirely appropriate. A company can't do everything necessary to prevent every bad thing. They should do everything that they reasonably can. Someone else should decide what is reasonable.

The regulators are saying we've decided the what you have to do to be considered to have done all you could to be safe. Follow those rules, tell us how you've followed those rules, and if something bad happens and we find out that you didn't follow the rules you said we're going to nail you to the wall.

This hinges on Section 15. Which I think is inadequate because it does not meet the criteria of someone else deciding what is reasonable. Publishing their safety plans and adhering to them should be enough to grant protection from liability of harm directly to users, since the publication give individuals the ability to make an informed decision, provided they have done the safety work that they have said, a user deciding that is sufficient for them and choosing to use it should be allowable.

That should not extend to harm done to others. They don't get to choose. Consequently the standard required to be protected against claims of negligence has to be decided by a third party (experts hired by regulators ideally).

Blanket liability and blanket indemnity both go too far.

If someone makes a YoYo that blow's someone up because they made it out of explosives then they should be held liable.

If someone makes a YoYo that blow's up a city because it contained particles unknown and undetectable to any science we have, they shouldn't be to blame.

The key is that they have to have done what we think is required. Legislators get to decide what it is that is required. If a company does all of that, then they shouldn't be held responsible, because they have done all they were asked to do.

The problem is not that a law provides indemnity, the problem is that it sets the standard to qualify too low.

Re: OpenAI backs Illinois bill that would limit when AI labs can be held liable

#282

Am I alone in thinking this is easy? The human making the decision is always liable. What if the human couldn't reasonably know better? Doesn't matter - If they made the same decision without AI or with old files it is still on them. What if there's no single human decision? Someone is in charge and is responsible. The "I was ordered to" isn't a defense. Does liability without power make sense? People executing have…

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Re: OpenAI backs Illinois bill that would limit when AI labs can be held liable

#283

I have made both GPT 5.4 and Opus 4.6 produce me content on creating neurotoxic agents from items you can get at most everyday stores. It struggled to suggest how to source phosphorus, but eventually lead me to some ebay listings that sell phosphorus elemental 'decorations' and also lead me towards real!! blackmarket codewords for sourcing such materials. It coached me how to: stay safe, what materials I need, how to…

While scary, information like this has been pretty accessible for 20-30 years now. In the wild west days of the early internet, there were whole forums devoted to "stuff the government doesn't want you to know" (Temple Of The Screaming Electron, anyone?). I suppose the friction is scariest part, every year the IQ required to end the world drops by a point, but motivated and mildly intelligent people have been able to…

Many of these forums exist now. Let's not enumerate them as they are one of the treasures of the internet.

Re: OpenAI backs Illinois bill that would limit when AI labs can be held liable

#284
This is why humans will still be necessary in decision chains: good luck getting anyone associated with AI to be provided with a real punishment when their models cause something bad to happen, or getting the executives who said "let's just have the AI do it" to take any responsibility.

Re: OpenAI backs Illinois bill that would limit when AI labs can be held liable

#285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While scary, information like this has been pretty accessible for 20-30 years now. In the wild west days of the early internet, there were whole forums devoted to "stuff the government doesn't want you to know" (Temple Of The Screaming Electron, anyone?). I suppose the friction is scariest part, every year the IQ required to end the world drops by a point, but motivated and mildly intelligent people have been able to…

> been pretty accessible for 20-30 years now. There was this book 20 years ago: "Secret of Methamphetamine Manufacturing" by Uncle Fester https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Uncle-Fester-ebook/dp/B00305GTWU (Actually, 8th edition :-D)

I am convinced the Uncle Fester books are some kind of performance art. "Practical LSD Manufacture" basically starts with "go find some ergot in fields" and step two is "plant and grow a plot of wheat."

Re: OpenAI backs Illinois bill that would limit when AI labs can be held liable

#286

Let’s see how long until this is flagged off the front page. I’ll put the over/under at 1 hour from the posted time

It's not removed, but they changed the title to "OpenAI backs Illinois bill that would limit when AI labs can be held liable". The actual bill text explicitly mentions that it excludes liability for "the death or serious injury of 100 or more people or at least $1,000,000,000 of damages to rights in property caused or materially enabled by a frontier model" (https://legiscan.com/IL/text/SB3444/2025) so I am not sure why the title was changed. The original title of "OpenAI Backs Bill That Would Limit Liability for AI-Enabled Mass Deaths or Financial Disasters" seems like it accurately describes the bill.

Re: OpenAI backs Illinois bill that would limit when AI labs can be held liable

#287
post #66

Quoting the original bill [0]: > "Critical harm" means the death or serious injury of 100 or more people or at least $1,000,000,000 of damages to rights in property caused or materially enabled by a frontier model, through either: (1) the creation or use of a chemical, biological, radiological, or nuclear weapon; or (2) engaging in conduct that: (A) acts with no meaningful human intervention; and (B) would, if commit…

I think my favorite part is that, because it only applies to "frontier models", if a smaller model is blamed for such harm, it seemingly doesn't immunize the creators at all. That makes very little sense unless you specifically want to make it illegal to not be OpenAI (et al). Similarly, if a frontier model kills merely 99 people, they aren't covered by this. So go big or go home I guess?

    > "Frontier model" means an artificial intelligence model that:

    > (1) is trained using greater than 10^26 computational operations, such as integer or floating-point operations; or

    > (2) has a compute cost that exceeds $100,000,000
Such a strange regulation, usually large thresholds like this are made to only apply burdening regulation to very-big-players (if you're spending 100 million on training, you can afford a dedicated team to follow such regulation).

But here it seems to be an anti- competitive move for market entrants who haven't made it into the big league yet...

Sounds like the saga for some players pushing for Biden's EO 14110 but this time at the state level?

Re: OpenAI backs Illinois bill that would limit when AI labs can be held liable

#288

As an Iowan, this reminds me a lot of the bill that's been pushed through my state's senate twice now (as recently as last year), which would prevent Iowans from filing lawsuits against pesticide and herbicide companies if those companies follow the EPA's labeling guidelines. The bill passed the senate both times, only stopped because the house declined to take it up. For context, Iowa has the fastest growing rate of…

Honest question, isn't that like OK? Like if you have a product, and the government says the product is ok, and it's labeled per regulation and later that product turns out to be deleterious to people's health should the company be liable? Guess we should already have precedent but my google-fu is failing here. I can't seem to find the resolution of Felix-Lozano v. Nalge Nunc , Felix sued Nalgene over their use of BP…

"Like if you have a product, and the government says the product is ok, and it's labeled per regulation and later that product turns out to be deleterious to people's health should the company be liable?"

Mesothelioma is the precedent.

100% yes. If you've never seen the hell that people go through with these cancers, you are blessed, but it is hell, especially in the US medical system.

Re: OpenAI backs Illinois bill that would limit when AI labs can be held liable

#289

Illinois also has a Bill in committee right now to mandate operating system level age verification. There are lots of bad ideas to be upset about this year. If you are an Illinois resident, email your representative about HB 5511 today. Stupid legislation like this passes because we don’t speak up. Find out who your representative is, find their email, tell them your opinion.

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Re: OpenAI backs Illinois bill that would limit when AI labs can be held liable

#290
post #206
post #66

Quoting the original bill [0]: > "Critical harm" means the death or serious injury of 100 or more people or at least $1,000,000,000 of damages to rights in property caused or materially enabled by a frontier model, through either: (1) the creation or use of a chemical, biological, radiological, or nuclear weapon; or (2) engaging in conduct that: (A) acts with no meaningful human intervention; and (B) would, if commit…

Shifting liabilities from corporations to the public coffer is what companies do. You'll often hear this described as "privatizing profits and socializing losses". Let me introduce you to the Price-Anderson Act of 1957 [1]. It's been repeatedly extended, most recently with the ADVANCE Act [2]. This limits liability for the nuclear power industry in a whole range of ways: - It removes jurisdiction from state courts to…

This is what government should be doing. Figure out how to do something safely, make that a regulation, then shield companies from liability as long as they follow that regulation. In practice you won't extract trillions of dollars from most companies anyways, because they'll go bankrupt long before they manage to pay all that back.
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