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Eight years of wanting, three months of building with AI

lalitm.com

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Re: Eight years of wanting, three months of building with AI

#281
post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> With so much waste and not a single example of the "brilliant at giving you the right answer to a specific technical question" In my opinion, "giving me a better understanding for the architecture of the project" is reasonable technical compensation. > Indeed, feeling is the only saving grace for a mountain of random unreviewed tests I think I say a line or two above that this was after a review of the codebase so…

How many of 500 tests were actually reviewed/tested and found good? The code review results were: don't understand code and/or it's pretty bad. Then 0 of those 500 tests were used due to the full rewrite. So nothing to extrapolate usefulness from, all that's left is a feel... > giving me better understanding Examples of that would also be nice (I don't doubt the personal feel that waste was justified) > JOURNAL befor…

> How many of 500 tests were actually reviewed/tested and found good?

Essentially ~all of the tests were found to be useful but in a more "smoke test" capacity i.e. they provided good "basic" coverage but it was clear that it was also not sufficient.

Which is why in the rewrite: 1) I built a TCL driver that run the upstream SQLite tests and verified we accepted or rejected the SQL in the same way as SQLite.

2) I wrote a test runner which checked for "idempotence" i.e. run the formatter over all the SQL from all the other types of tests then verify that the AST was identical in the input and output.

3) I also wrote a script which ran the formatter over the PerfettoSQL standard library [1], a real world SQLite-based codebase that I knew and deeply understood so I could go through each file and manually check the output.

> Examples of that would also be nice (I don't doubt the personal feel that waste was justified)

Some things learned concretely:

1) C was not going to work for the higher level parts of the project, even the formatter was not pleasant to read or write in C, the validator was much worse

2) Doing the SQLite source extraction in the same language meant that I could ship a really cool feature where the syntaqlite CLI could "generate dialect extensions" without people needing to download a separate script, run their own extraction on the SQLite source code, or worse yet, need to fork syntaqlite. This actually makes it technically possible for people in the web playground to dynamically build extensions to SQLite (though I haven't ended up plumbing that feature through yet)

3) Having a DSL [2] for extensions of SQLite (that e.g. PerfettoSQL could use) was the correct way to go rather than using YAML/JSON/XML etc becaue of how much clarity it provided and how AI took a lot of the annoyance of maintaining a DSL away.

4) I need to invest much more in testing from the start and also more testing where the correctness can be "proved" in some way (e.g. idempotence testing or SQLite upstream testing as described above)

[1] https://github.com/google/perfetto/tree/main/src/trace_proce... [2] https://docs.syntaqlite.com/v0.2.15/guides/custom-dialects/

Re: Eight years of wanting, three months of building with AI

#282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve found that LLMs will frequently do extremely silly things that no person would do to make typescript code pass the typechecker.

You need to very specific and also question the output if it does something insane

I've found it's less about specificity and more about removing the # of critical assumptions it needs to make. Being too specific can be a hindrance in it's own regard.

And that's also a decent barometer for what it's good at. The more amount of critical assumptions AI needs to make, the less likely it is to make good ones.

For instance, when building a heat map, I don't have to get specific at all because the amount of consequential assumptions it needs to make is slim. I don't care or can change the colors, or the label placement.

Re: Eight years of wanting, three months of building with AI

#283
Been using LLMs both at work (FinTech DevOps/SRE) and on side projects (big data, games, websites) and here has been my "arc"

- first used copy and paste in and out of Grok

- started using CLI tools e.g. Claude and OpenCode

- move up to using 3 and sometimes 4 agents at the same time

- considered going to the agents managing agents

- have settled on having LLMs build tools that are both deterministic, usable by humans and the agent, and also faster (b/c there is less "back and forth")

Honestly, it feels a LOT like when Kubernetes came out. e.g. you stopped running containers on a box using Docker Compose plus scripts/configs etc. Instead gave a large part of the operation to an "agent" (in this case k8s) that managed all of the details you didn't need to care about anymore.

I've also realized that while the LLMs can crank out code at a very high rate, someone still needs to make sure everything is running, debug issues etc. You could set up agents to monitor what the agents do but then you still end up with someone needing to keep an eye on everything. If anything, you need MORE people b/c now you can just keep spinning up new components etc.

Also, was in a discussion with one of the best developers I've ever worked with. It came down to the following point:

"Programming is rapidly becoming a hobby. Software engineering is becoming more important than ever."

Re: Eight years of wanting, three months of building with AI

#285
post #238
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It takes time for people to go through these experiences (three months, in OP's case), and LLMs have only been reasonably good for a few months (since circa Nov'25). Previously, takes were necessarily shallower or not as insightful ("worked with caveats for me, ymmv") - there just wasn't enough data - although a few have posted fairly balanced takes (@mitsuhiko for example). I don't think we've seen the last of hyper…

> LLMs have only been reasonably good for a few months (since circa Nov'25). Ironically this itself is one of the hyper/doomer takes.

But is it a hyper or a doomer take?

There seems to be a concencus among people I follow/read, that somewhere around that time was an inflexion point in coding LLMs, and this matches my personal experience.

(My comment was in the context of LLMs being used to generate non-throwaway code, not general GenAI use - apologies if that was unclear.)

Re: Eight years of wanting, three months of building with AI

#286
post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> $200/month is already out of reach of the majority of the population. 1. You can build small applications with the $20/month sub, much more with the $100/month. Competition and technology improvements will inevitably improve the price to value ratio. 2. Cable sports subscriptions are in a similar price range. Expensive, but not exclusive to “the elites”.

The median per capita income in the United States is $37,683/year.[0] Depending on your state, after taxes, that's something like ~$2,600/month. You're asking almost 10% of their post-tax income to this just for the opportunity to create software. With rent, food, and other living expenses many households at that income level simply cannot afford this. This is the median income. If it's a struggle for someone on this…

[flagged]

Re: Eight years of wanting, three months of building with AI

#288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it very interesting that you assume this method would branch out to other projects. I find it even more interesting that you assume all software codebases use a database, give a damn about async anything, and that these ideas percolate out to general software engineering. Sounds like a solid way to make crud web apps though.

GP is clearly providing examples of categories of tasks. Sure, not all languages do “async fn foo()”, but almost all problem domains involve some sort of making sure the right things happen at the right times, which is in a similar ballpark. Holier than thou “yeah well I work on stuff that doesn’t use databases, checkmate!” doesn’t really land - data still gets moved around somehow, and often over a network!

Not trying to "land" anything.

Re: Eight years of wanting, three months of building with AI

#289
post #56

Really great to see a realistic experience sans hype about AI tools and how they can have an impact. > But when I reviewed the codebase in detail in late January, the downside was obvious: the codebase was complete spaghetti...It was extremely fragile; it solved the immediate problem but it was never going to cope with my larger vision...I decided to throw away everything and start from scratch This part was interest…

@cloche... spot on.

If we are all honest, it seems to be the case - most of the time:

- Refactoring (Sometimes starting again.. this is rarely starting from scratch as there would have been some insights and personal design decisions garnered from the previous experience) - Specificity (It is heavily influenced by energy which also is different depending time of day or on the individual level)

At the end of the day, it takes taste + experience of the user to make anything of notable complexity(architecture) with AI.(For now and the nearest future at least).

I find reading articles as this gives me a renewed sense of agency as a technologist and my growing list of passions.

A solid thank you to Lalit Maganti for sharing and the better HN community. I found a lot to steal reuse from the material/banter.

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