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The EU still wants to scan your private messages and photos

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Re: The EU still wants to scan your private messages and photos

#281

Post by sgt »

vrganj wrote: post #168
sgt wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that fair? Ireland should surely have a say the same way Germany does in parliament too, if it's affecting Ireland just as much. If one considers countries as units.

That's the whole idea, the parliament doesn't. The Council is the representation of the countries . The Parliament of the people .

I get it.. my question wasn't exactly what I meant to ask. I meant isn't there some kind of compensating factor. So that a country with a 100 million doesn't completely and utterly outshine a small country of 4 million, even in the parliament?

Or is the idea that the Council is sufficient to achieve this?

Re: The EU still wants to scan your private messages and photos

#282

Post by Xylakant »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #207
layer8 wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rights are never absolute, they always have to be weighed against each other. The weighing can and should be debated, and needs strong protections when put into practice, but demanding an absolute is not reasonable.

Any "right" that is not absolute is a worthless fairy tale. Compromise is the root of all evil.

There are no absolute rights, even in the charter of human rights, which is about as basic as it gets. The reality is that every right, if regarded as absolute, violates another fundamental right, if regarded as absolute.

Take for example Article 3 of the declaration of human rights:

> Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person.

The article already has a collision set up in itself: You have the right to live in safety. But also, everyone has the right to live in liberty. If taken as an absolute, the right of liberty would prevent incarceration of dangerous individuals, violating the other individuals right to all life in safety.

Similarly, other fundamental rights get curtailed: The freedom of speech is in balance with the right to personal dignity of article one and other rights.

Not acknowledging that even fundamental human rights are in a tension with each other is just ignoring reality and will get you nowhere in a legal discussion.

The discussion is not which right is absolute, it is about how to balance the tension between the various rights. And different societies strike a different balance here.

Take for example the right to freedom and liberty. Lifelong imprisonment without parole as punishment is not a thing in Germany. There’s an instrument that allows the court to keep the perpetrator locked up in case the court considers the individual dangerous, but until 1998, this could not be retroactively be applied. There was a major legal upheaval with multiple rounds to the constitutional court to change that and it took until 2012/2013 to find a legal framework that wasn’t declared unconstitutional. To this day, however, Sicherheitsverwahrung is not a punishment, but a combination of therapy and ensuring the safety of society and it’s subject to regular checks if the conditions for the lockup still exist. The individuals are also not held in prisons, but in nicer facilities.

On the other hand, many US states still have the death penalty and are proud of it.

Re: The EU still wants to scan your private messages and photos

#283

Post by Imustaskforhelp »

orleyhuxwell wrote: post #44
kleiba wrote: post #21

If you're ever unsure about whether a proposed EU regulation may be good or bad, just look at whether Hungary supports it: if so, it's bad; if not, it might be good. Egészségére!

I'm Polish and I was positivity shocked that we oppose it. I remember attending some protests against ACTA which as far as I remember was supposed to be something similar, back in my student days. It was -17°C and people still showed up. Apparently we have some culture of opposing censorship and invigilation by state. May come in handy if the democratic decline keeps progressing...

If we are talking about freedom fighters, Polish freedom fighters/struggles are second most influential to me after my own country especially because of Witold Pilecki.

I once wrote a paper about Witold pilecki for my english project for who I consider to be the most influential person or something similar.

I picked Witold pilecki because I had read a book which talked about him and it captured so much of my mind.

For those who don't know, Witold Pilecki is a polish person who was the first and perhaps only person who willingly entered holocaust/auschwitz and then he was the first person to realize all the horrors happening inside, He then used washing machine parts (iirc) to send the signal to the allies, who COULDN'T believe what Pilecki said was happening. The amounts of Atrocities they thought wasn't possible.

When he found out that help wasn't coming, He decided to free himself and He accomplished doing that by taking a job at something bread related who then ends up leaving.

He then married an Polish teacher (iirc) and had kids but after Russia had won over Polish, he was fake trialed and he was falsely accused of treason.

His last words were, "I've been trying to live my life so that in the hour of my death I would rather feel joy, than fear."

On a personal level, when I was writing that project and this line, I genuinely believe that this might be one of the most influential lines to me that I have ever heard which has genuinely influenced me.

It was during this project that I found Sabaton from trying to research about Witold pilecki and found so many gems that Sabaton is quite part of my music taste now :-)

Sabaton- Inmate 4859: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pc1oSYXlUQ (This song is about Witold Pilecki)

Sabaton Uprising: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzeNBRbWXpI (Another Polish warsaw related song that I found after I had discovered Sabaton from the Inmate 4859 song)

I hope that you are proud of your heritage/nation. I am sure that Poland might have flaws too but I do believe that its history is quite rich and something to be quite proud of.

I am surprised not more people know about Witold Pilecki but I hope I am doing my part raising awareness about that hero.

Within my country, some of the revolutionaries which feel influential on such level to me feel most importantly Bhagat Singh, Subash Chandra Bose, Chandrashekhar Azad. These are also people who have influenced me.

There is also the story of how an Indian ruler hosted Polish WWII refugees[0] and helped them within his kingdom, which I am not sure if many Polish know.

While I was writing this comment, I discovered a good song about Indian revolutionaries as well which I feel like sharing too: Krantiveer (Revolutionary): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uXZG0pTxME [Turn the subtitles (on)]

I think my point can be summarized by a quote from Subash chandra bose, that freedom is not given, it is taken.

[0]: https://indianexpress.com/article/research/the-good-maharaja...

Re: The EU still wants to scan your private messages and photos

#284

Post by tritiy »

x775 wrote: post #66

I am the creator of Fight Chat Control. Thank you for sharing. It is unfortunately, once again, needed. The recent events have been rather dumbfounding. On March 11, the Parliament surprisingly voted to replace blanket mass surveillance with targeted monitoring of suspects following judicial involvement [0]. As Council refused to compromise, the trilogue negotiations were set to fail, thus allowing the Commission's c…

I've just used it to send email to my representatives (Croatia). Thanks for the effort.

Re: The EU still wants to scan your private messages and photos

#285

Post by ytpron2026 »

drnick1 wrote: post #238
Muromec wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same way you can't send money to the best Korea and watch porn on youtube. There is a long chain of actions that ends with you having e2e on your phone (or what not). At the starts of it there is your physical body living in jurisdiction and transacting with (mostly) other people being somewhat present in the same jurisdiction using government-captured money. There are multiply choke points, controlling which wil…

I am not sure I follow. I can't watch porn on YT because YT decides not to host it. But I can absolutely use a VPN and access porn in a jurisdiction that does not block it. I can also, and in fact do, encrypt my hard drives. Even China can't reliably prevent communication over private encrypted networks or services hosted overseas.

[dead]

Re: The EU still wants to scan your private messages and photos

#286

Post by Palmik »

x775 wrote: post #66

I am the creator of Fight Chat Control. Thank you for sharing. It is unfortunately, once again, needed. The recent events have been rather dumbfounding. On March 11, the Parliament surprisingly voted to replace blanket mass surveillance with targeted monitoring of suspects following judicial involvement [0]. As Council refused to compromise, the trilogue negotiations were set to fail, thus allowing the Commission's c…

Great work! There is maybe some bug. When you click on one of the 4 "opposing" countries (e.g. Czech Republic, Poland), it scrolls down and then shows that majority of the representatives from the country actually support it. Is that intended? Won't that make people from those countries "relax" even though they might have an impact by contacting their represenatives?

Re: The EU still wants to scan your private messages and photos

#287

Post by teekert »

I'm happy that the Netherlands is still against this. Our currently largest party (D66) was also always pretty strong on privacy. When I contacted them some time back (I think using this initiative), they ensured me that they remained against, but did feel that something must be done (ok fair enough).

Re: The EU still wants to scan your private messages and photos

#288

Post by mikemzz1 »

drnick1 wrote: post #238
Muromec wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same way you can't send money to the best Korea and watch porn on youtube. There is a long chain of actions that ends with you having e2e on your phone (or what not). At the starts of it there is your physical body living in jurisdiction and transacting with (mostly) other people being somewhat present in the same jurisdiction using government-captured money. There are multiply choke points, controlling which wil…

I am not sure I follow. I can't watch porn on YT because YT decides not to host it. But I can absolutely use a VPN and access porn in a jurisdiction that does not block it. I can also, and in fact do, encrypt my hard drives. Even China can't reliably prevent communication over private encrypted networks or services hosted overseas.

[dead]

Re: The EU still wants to scan your private messages and photos

#289

Post by aniviacat »

max_ wrote: post #92

The lack of accountability after what was exposed in the Epstein files illustrates that not one in power actually care about kids. "Save the kids", is just a ploy to run scams.

What are you hoping to happen regarding the Epstein files? The few politicians in the EU that were named in the Epstein files did resign.

Re: The EU still wants to scan your private messages and photos

#290

Post by debugnik »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #268
GCUMstlyHarmls wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it? Stopping is a matter of ground swell support contacting representatives and saying "please don't". Enough people do it to enough receptive reps and they'll vote no. Passing new ones that "you like" requires lawyers to write laws, get those laws in front of reps, get them to agree to try and pass it, stake some of their reputation on pushing it, get the ground swell to support it -- which might be difficult whe…

Stopping legislation means organizing a sufficient number of no votes. Passing it means organizing a sufficient number of yes votes. They are the same process and they require exactly the same work. They take place at the exact same moment in time and space, although they are mutually exclusive. You're free to describe things however you want, but your descriptions won't change the underlying reality.

> Passing it means organizing a sufficient number of yes votes.

EU Parliament can't propose legislation, only vote on proposals from the Commission. We'd have to convince the Commission to propose a law to prevent themselves from trying to pass this bullshit over and over.

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