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Department of State advises Americans worldwide to exercise increased caution

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Re: Department of State advises Americans worldwide to exercise increased caution

#281

Post by dotancohen »

donkeybeer wrote: post #280
dragonwriter wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, it was more to target Soviet satellites in Latin America which might, in a foreseeable scenario, host Soviet missiles (also, to hit the Soviet Far East, which would be even more likely to host Soviet missiles.) But it also wasn't not to have the capacity to target the US; if France implicitly trusted the US they wouldn't have opted out of the NATO unified military command for 43 years as well as developing thei…

I gave the example to show dotancohens absolutely ridiculous insinuation. All militaries always want to expand their capabilities. To say it somehow means Iran wants to target Europe is absolutely ridiculous.

I answered the quote:

  > only Israel was threatened by Iran
...by demonstrating that other nations are in fact under threat. Threat is defined not only by "what Iran wants" but also "what Iran is capable of".

Re: Department of State advises Americans worldwide to exercise increased caution

#282

Post by dotancohen »

donkeybeer wrote: post #278
dotancohen wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was the intention of the United States, when funding the Contras, specifically to murder people? Did the United States publicly support and legitimise murder, rape, and hostages as a political tactic? Serious question. I don't see any evidence they did.

Would you be asking about intent if the end result of some "well intentioned" program was the murder of thousands of jews and terrorism all over Israel? Do you ask about intent for example when speaking of the deaths caused by well intentioned Soviet communism? And I have given a much longer list than just the contras, where you can't even hide behind "but the origins were noble", they supported already terroristic e…

I'm not hiding behind anything, I'm asking about the only notable example you gave with a link to more specific information. I'm actually learning - that's probably the problem. People on the America-Israel side are willing to ask questions and learn. People on the Muslim axis side find the idea of asking questions and learning so foreign that you don't even recognize it.

And yes, of course, when we study e.g. the German genocide of Jews we ask about intent. The Yad Vashem museum is all about examining the intent - you should go visit. One of the first exhibits is a Deutschmark restamped with a higher denomination, demonstrating the unbearable inflation that the German people were suffering prior to WWII. And the reasons for that suffering are explained as well. As I remember it, the major contributor was the Treaty Of Versailles, which mandated far too heavy war reparations against Germany.

And regarding the Soviets, are you joking? Yes, of course the reasons are discussed. How else does anybody learn a lesson? Have you seriously not studied history at all, to insinuate that one does not ask why?

Re: Department of State advises Americans worldwide to exercise increased caution

#283

Post by donkeybeer »

dotancohen wrote: post #281
donkeybeer wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I gave the example to show dotancohens absolutely ridiculous insinuation. All militaries always want to expand their capabilities. To say it somehow means Iran wants to target Europe is absolutely ridiculous.

I answered the quote: > only Israel was threatened by Iran ...by demonstrating that other nations are in fact under threat. Threat is defined not only by "what Iran wants" but also "what Iran is capable of".

Only Israelis have given nuclear threats to Europe. Iran hasn't. Id you say the man who threatened to nuke Europe wasn't a government agent, would you have extended the same clarity to an Iranian saying the same. Objectively all points show Israel is much more of a threat to Europe than Iran is. Every countries military wants as adcanced capabilities as possible, it is telling you ignored my France example. You simply saying the range of icbms of a country annd without anything else implying thats a threat. That's frankly unbelievable.

Re: Department of State advises Americans worldwide to exercise increased caution

#284

Post by donkeybeer »

dotancohen wrote: post #282
donkeybeer wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you be asking about intent if the end result of some "well intentioned" program was the murder of thousands of jews and terrorism all over Israel? Do you ask about intent for example when speaking of the deaths caused by well intentioned Soviet communism? And I have given a much longer list than just the contras, where you can't even hide behind "but the origins were noble", they supported already terroristic e…

I'm not hiding behind anything, I'm asking about the only notable example you gave with a link to more specific information. I'm actually learning - that's probably the problem. People on the America-Israel side are willing to ask questions and learn. People on the Muslim axis side find the idea of asking questions and learning so foreign that you don't even recognize it. And yes, of course, when we study e.g. the Ge…

It is very clear why I asked, because for good reasons you would not accept the "original intent" that led to these massacres the way you were wondering about America's "original intent" regarding Contra and other terrorist groups

Re: Department of State advises Americans worldwide to exercise increased caution

#285

Post by zzrrt »

anon7000 wrote: post #157
zzrrt wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Texas or Arizona or North Carolina or Florida All Red states. So if you roll over and let the federal government trample your state's sovereignty, they won't murder people in your state? Somehow I don't think that's what federalism was supposed to mean. Trump nearly passed out with glee when he was talking to the Ukrainian president and found out elections are canceled, by their law, due to martial law because of t…

Seriously, it’s totally fair to think that there’s no way they’ll be cancelled. There are some checks and balances left. But if you voted for Trump, you should be DEEPLY concerned about how much he loves toying with the idea. It’s frankly more impeachable than nearly anything I’ve heard of, since it’d be fucking treasonous to cancel elections. Demand better from your representatives and officials, and stop voting MAG…

If the checks and balances are fine, what do his voters have to worry about?

I'd like to be wrong, but Congress failed to convict him the last time he tried to overthrow the election, SCOTUS has partisan justices supporting him. If they're creative enough and people are scared enough...

Re: Department of State advises Americans worldwide to exercise increased caution

#287

Post by fouc »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #74
fouc wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

winning what?

One of President Donald Trump’s lines during the 2016 presidential campaign was his promise that, “We’re gonna win so much, you may even get tired of winning. And you’ll say, ‘Please, please. It’s too much winning. We can’t take it anymore, Mr. President, it’s too much.’ And I’ll say, ‘No it isn’t. We have to keep winning. We have to win more!’” https://www.c-span.org/clip/campaign-2016/user-clip-too-much... Trump sa…

Oh jeez, that makes sense now. Thanks for filling in the blanks

Re: Department of State advises Americans worldwide to exercise increased caution

#288

Post by dwb »

dotancohen wrote: post #262
dwb wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s bold to get presumptuously snooty about people’s understanding of history, and even mention the closeness of the Shah with the US, without acknowledging how the Shah came to power…! To say nothing of the US’s more recent interventions in other Muslim-majority countries. Do you not think that might go further to explain the discontent, especially considering Khomeini’s comments that you refer to, than some nebulo…

Fine, the US propped up the Shah. I didn't see it as relevant but there you go. Khomeini himself didn't see it as too relevant either, as he barely mentioned it after the revolution. He did state that the US was the source of all Muslims' problems, many times, but he did not mention the US support of the Shah as part of his regular rallies.

“Propped up” is putting it extremely lightly, to the extent that I wonder if you have a good enough grasp of the history.

Re: Department of State advises Americans worldwide to exercise increased caution

#289

Post by encrypted_bird »

taneq wrote: post #170
encrypted_bird wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has. (Unless you're being sarcastic, in which case I'm not surprised it went over my head. Lol.)

Yeah, I was aiming for irony but I should probably have added /s at the end there. It's definitely in the mid-late chapters in any "how to install a fascist regime" handbook.

Yeah, no worries, I'm pretty terrible at reading sarcasm on the best of days. Haha.

Re: Department of State advises Americans worldwide to exercise increased caution

#290

Post by encrypted_bird »

SanjayMehta wrote: post #263
encrypted_bird wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure where you live, but try going to some of the super-small towns in the Midwest. I unfortunately still see people openly wearing MAGA hats and have MAGA flags on the flag poles in their yards. Trust me, as sad as it is, those people still exist.

Not in the US, just reporting what I'm seeing on signal/WA groups consisting of mostly former classmates and colleagues. A sample size in the low hundreds. These are CA, OR and WA centric with exactly one guy in TN.

Okay, but to be fair you did say "in real life", which implies not on Signal or WhatsApp.
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