Live data from Hacker News

OpenClaw is a security nightmare dressed up as a daydream

composio.dev

281–290 of 323 posts

Re: OpenClaw is a security nightmare dressed up as a daydream

#281
post #130
post #17

Responding to the tweet quoted in the article: why are the examples given of futuristic capabilities always so visionless - it's always booking a flight or scheduling a meeting. Doing this manually is already pretty trivial, it's more productivity theatre than genuinely life-changing. There are real, impressive examples of the power of agentic flows out there. Can we up the quality of our examples just a bit?

Booking a flight is the kind of thing I want to dedicate my full attention to. It's expensive, and the timing and details matter a lot. I'm happy for the voice assistant to add stuff to my grocery list, though. The consequences are not serious if it screws up a letter or something.

Booking a flight is the type of thing you think you want to dedicate your full attention to. Largely, the issue is one of trust that whatever is making the bookings will take into account the nuances of your schedule and preferences. Here's the typical flow for how my (human) assistant books my flights. I tell them I want to go to $LOCATION from $START to $END. They have my calendar, my travel preferences (airlines, hotels, etc) and the company travel policy. A couple hours later, they slack me a couple of options. If there is one I like, I tell them to book it. If not, I tell them why none of the options work. The process repeats until I see something I like or we run out of options and I have to choose the least bad option. There is nothing about this process that needs a human. It's all done on Slack and for all I know the person at the other end is actually an AI (they're not, but for arguments sake, they could be).

Re: OpenClaw is a security nightmare dressed up as a daydream

#282
post #17

Responding to the tweet quoted in the article: why are the examples given of futuristic capabilities always so visionless - it's always booking a flight or scheduling a meeting. Doing this manually is already pretty trivial, it's more productivity theatre than genuinely life-changing. There are real, impressive examples of the power of agentic flows out there. Can we up the quality of our examples just a bit?

I don't use Claw. It is way too dangerous. I built my own system where I know the ins and outs and how they can break. When it comes to agents' tasks, I tend to focus on things that I couldn't do before without automated agents, at least at the going price. The kind of automation I'm doing is more like building a set of agents to generate marketing surveys for me. They take free form input from me and my project. The…

This is a really tempting approach but I think it is the wrong one. The issue is one of trajectory. OpenClaw has the attention of thousands of hackers and there is a huge incentive to contribute to make it better. That will compound very quickly and will become much better than whatever private solution you create.

Re: OpenClaw is a security nightmare dressed up as a daydream

#283
post #13
post #6

Yes, yes it is. And it's amaaaazing. We're going to have lots of sharp edges getting stuff like this secured, but it is not going to go away. Too useful.

The first company to deliver a truly secure Claw is going to make millions of dollars. I have no idea how anyone is going to do that.

It seems almost impossible. I spent the weekend comparing nanoclaw to openclaw - nanoclaw is a slightly more secure version - containerized filesystem basically - and very popular.

It's a) harder to setup, b) less functional out of the box, c) has almost exactly the same security risk surface -- either you hook it up to your email, comms, documents and give it API tokens, or you don't. If you do -- well, at least it can't delete your hard drive without turning full evil and looking for red pill type exploits that break the container -- but, it still has the same other security dynamics.

Anyway, employing a very suspicious watcher that's hooked to the shell and API calls is probably the way forward. Can that thing be reasoned with / tricked?

Re: OpenClaw is a security nightmare dressed up as a daydream

#286
here's the thing. As some point the tools need to be openclaw safe.

Kids need scissors. And they're inexperienced. So you give them kid-safe scissors. It makes it harder to cut themselves.

The same needs to take place with assets you want the bot to manage

- give access to a card with a total spend limit - read only access to some things, edit others - limited scope permissions

One of the reasons why I dragged my feet to use openclaw is that I knew security was an issue from the beginning. I thought by now where would be some solutions and there are, but I only found out from the community. I think there will need to be some level of ecosystem management. Apple does a good job. But for that you need resources and investment.

Re: OpenClaw is a security nightmare dressed up as a daydream

#287

I'm a heavy OpenClaw user and I've been testing it in many different scenarios — the profundity of what I can do with it now is crazy. It's literally automating my life. Being AuDHD, OpenClaw feels like a big relief. The positive sides are amazing. The downsides... well, as with any security and any LLM, they're all prone to the same problems discussed here. Having Claude Code on yolo mode exposes you to the exact sa…

Could you give some examples of where it's saving you a lot of time? My main time sinks are dishes, laundry, and cleaning. Is it helping out with any of those?

Re: OpenClaw is a security nightmare dressed up as a daydream

#288
post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have "new genius" ideas very often. After doing quick search I discover that any idea worth thinking of implementation is either implemented already or what seems to be low barrier to entry clashes with some legal obstacles.

Interestingly that sort of research is actually what I've used Claude/Chatgpt deep research and openclaw for. If I have an idea, I get an agent to go and do some product research for me and see if there is a market, if anyone has tried it, and if there is anyone doing it. It has unironically saved me a lot of time I would have otherwise spent going down rabbit holes. Of the models I've found that claude doesn't gas y…

I find ChatGPT so infuriating the way it always agrees with everything you say. The product is optimised for engagement so it wants its users to be delighted

Re: OpenClaw is a security nightmare dressed up as a daydream

#289
post #170
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why are the examples given of futuristic capabilities always so visionless - it's always booking a flight or scheduling a meeting. This AI wave is filled with "ideas guys/gals" who thought they had an amazing awesome idea and if only they knew how to program they could make a best-selling billion dollar idea, being confronted with the reality that their ideas are really uninteresting as well. They're still happy to…

I have "new genius" ideas very often. After doing quick search I discover that any idea worth thinking of implementation is either implemented already or what seems to be low barrier to entry clashes with some legal obstacles.

Jim Rohn said one time “just pick a direction and go, you will find out sooner”, if its good or bad.

That was adjusted for 80s. In todays world you can know whether something is worth pursuing in minutes. Tip - in 99.9% of cases its not, but you will still learn along the way. Maybe you find something new.

Re: OpenClaw is a security nightmare dressed up as a daydream

#290
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first company to deliver a truly secure Claw is going to make millions of dollars. I have no idea how anyone is going to do that.

It seems almost impossible. I spent the weekend comparing nanoclaw to openclaw - nanoclaw is a slightly more secure version - containerized filesystem basically - and very popular. It's a) harder to setup, b) less functional out of the box, c) has almost exactly the same security risk surface -- either you hook it up to your email, comms, documents and give it API tokens, or you don't. If you do -- well, at least it…

I'm on my 3rd "claw" variant (currently https://github.com/moltis-org/moltis). I had the same issues you had. Moltis is better (at the moment).
Post reply on HN