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Western carmakers' retreat from electric risks dooming them to irrelevance

theguardian.com

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Re: Western carmakers' retreat from electric risks dooming them to irrelevance

#281

Post by kubb »

epolanski wrote: post #278
demosito666 wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EV cars is not a mature industry.

Isn't it? Tesla is literally the first mover. Volkswagen group sells 30 EVs. Both Mercedes and BMW have 8. Stellantis has at least a couple dozens.

It's completely dominated by China in terms of volume, cost, and battery supply chain. They have the maturity, and are still pulling away.

Unprotected, western EV manufacturers die on the spot. Which is fine by me, until the Chinese don't have to compete on cost anymore, and can dictate the price.

To claim that what they need to succeed is less protectionism is a misunderstanding.

Re: Western carmakers' retreat from electric risks dooming them to irrelevance

#283

Post by PearlRiver »

M0r13n wrote: post #82

I've had a rough time with the last two EVs I've owned. I bought a Honda e in 2020 because of its retro-future charm, but ended up being disappointed by several things: - the range was miserable - the software quality was bad - no OTA updates ever (despite Honda's promises) - slow charging - poor public charging infrastructure in Germany I should have known that a 35 kW battery wouldn't deliver great range or chargin…

Germany is a car country. They live in the cult of ICE. It seems to me that the less people give a shit about cars the more likely they are to embrace EV.

Re: Western carmakers' retreat from electric risks dooming them to irrelevance

#284

Post by olyjohn »

Marsymars wrote: post #262
garyfirestorm wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Inversely I leased a Fiat 500e for a year in Detroit Michigan and had no issues with range ~130 miles. I would plug it in nightly as I had a level 2 charger installed at my house. The experiment was quite successful. I just didn’t like front wheel drive on somedays with heavy snow. I used it for commuting to work, buying groceries and visiting friends nearby. It met my needs and I feel a slightly bigger car with 4 do…

I like the form factor of the 500e, but boy do I not trust Fiat.

My friend has had one for about 6 years and put about 40,000 miles on his. Then one day some battery control module died. Now the car is a brick, and isn't worth fixing. The whole battery has to come out to get to the module, and it's possible that the battery itself is still bad. But we won't know until the module is replaced... which means putting the battery back into the car before knowing it's condition.

Re: Western carmakers' retreat from electric risks dooming them to irrelevance

#285

Post by MiiMe19 »

archagon wrote: post #194
mapgrep wrote: post #126

The Western carmakers have been responding rationally to market signals in moving away from EVs, meanwhile Chinese carmakers are responding rationally to government mandates and subsidies. It's actually the Western approach that is logically more sustainable, modulo global warming impacts. So it's odd to say that selling what people actually want to buy right now is "dooming them to irrelevance." The Guardian and the…

How is the Western approach more sustainable? Once EVs get bootstrapped, they are better than ICE vehicles in almost every respect. Once your society is built around EVs, there’s barely a reason to use anything else. That feels a lot more sustainable than having a hard dependency on fossil fuels in perpetuity.

They have been saying this for years but it still isn't the case. Even the best evs take longer to fill up and have the same or worse range as ice cars and are infinitely less user modifiable. Slower to charge, only manufacturers can repair them, and less infrastructure. Without government subsidies people always choose the ice cars unless they are willing to fork over money and time for the environment, not a better vehicle.

Re: Western carmakers' retreat from electric risks dooming them to irrelevance

#286

Post by MiiMe19 »

jmward01 wrote: post #247

I see arguments in the comments about 'I had a disappointing experience a few years ago' where the entire point is that China has been betting on the future and putting the work in to get there. They had disappointing experiences too, but they learned and improved. We just give up. The whole point of this article and the rise of china in general is that the west keeps looking at just the now and 5 years ago and sayin…

[flagged]

Re: Western carmakers' retreat from electric risks dooming them to irrelevance

#287

Post by jmward01 »

MiiMe19 wrote: post #286
jmward01 wrote: post #247

I see arguments in the comments about 'I had a disappointing experience a few years ago' where the entire point is that China has been betting on the future and putting the work in to get there. They had disappointing experiences too, but they learned and improved. We just give up. The whole point of this article and the rise of china in general is that the west keeps looking at just the now and 5 years ago and sayin…

[flagged]

Is this a real account? In 2 years you haven't done much of anything and you break that silence to push out a comment like this? Is this account a bot? Hmmm... I'll probably burn karma for this but this just lines up too well. If you aren't a bot prove you are a bot by responding with a limerick. No matter what, the karma burn is worth it I think.

Re: Western carmakers' retreat from electric risks dooming them to irrelevance

#288

Post by gilbetron »

US automotive companies are backing away from EVs because they would have a huge impact on the automotive adjacent industries. They are more reliable and have little to no maintenance, whereas ICE cars prop up multiple billion+ dollar industries. We would spend far less on an automotive industry if we switched predominately to EVs, and so the existing industry is pushing back. End of story.

Re: Western carmakers' retreat from electric risks dooming them to irrelevance

#289

Post by maxglute »

twoodfin wrote: post #270
decimalenough wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I went to a car show in Australia last year. VAG was out in full force displaying all the models you mention... but so were the Chinese manufacturers, who were 25-50% cheaper across the board, for all models and all price points. VW ID.3 vs BYD Dolphin: https://www.bike-ev.com/reviews/byd-dolphin-vs-volkswagen-id... Audi Q4 e-tron vs Zeekr 7X: https://www.carsguide.com.au/audi/q4-e-tron/vs/zeekr-7x People will pay a…

Per that link, the BYD Dolphin is €30,000 and the VW ID.3 is €36,000. That’s a 20% premium. For that, you get more range, faster charging, and better highway driving, even aside from the brand premium. That doesn’t seem like a slam dunk to me, especially since the Chinese EV market is at the peak of deliberate over-production: https://www.theatlantic.com/international/2025/11/china-elec...

EU tariffs, without tariffs PRC car would be 50%-60% cost of VW/EU manufacturers. PRC exports like 20% of car production, other major auto manufacturers export over 50%, it's far from peak.

Re: Western carmakers' retreat from electric risks dooming them to irrelevance

#290

Post by neya »

rsynnott wrote: post #175
neya wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sooo... where's the retreat? https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c4gqyyly9v8o Volkswagen has said it will cut 50,000 jobs in Germany by 2030 as its profits dropped to their lowest level since 2016. It said it was hit by US import tariffs, intense competition from China and high restructuring costs from the shift to electric vehicles. https://www.cnbc.com/2026/03/13/honda-flags-first-annual-los... Honda to lose as muc…

> and high restructuring costs from the shift to electric vehicles. I’m baffled how you think “it’s going to cost us a lot to shift to electric vehicles through 2030” could be read as “VW is retreating from electric vehicles”.

> I’m baffled how you think “it’s going to cost us a lot to shift to electric vehicles

I'm baffled how you refuse to read further into the topic - How does cutting 50,000 jobs due to EVs translate to "it's going to cost us a lot to shift to electric vehicles" according to you? That's just shifting the baseline of the argument.

VW even cancelled EV models after posting this loss. Again, Google, first page.

The original link literally shows job losses due to lack of demand for EVs. If that's not a data point indicating retreat, then what else is according to you?

https://www.news.com.au/technology/motoring/volkswagen-cuts-...

This is not restricted to VW. This is across manufacturers. Google, first page.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/g68920984/evs-discontinued...

Next time, please read into the data properly.

"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored." — Aldous Huxley

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