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How I write software with LLMs

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281–290 of 544 posts

Re: How I write software with LLMs

#281
> One thing I’ve noticed is that different people get wildly different results with LLMs, so I suspect there’s some element of how you’re talking to them that affects the results.

Which is Fortuna's work... stochastic models are like that. And confirmation bias is another phenomenon as well as "how do LLMs align with my worldview" whether I see them more positively or more negatively.

Re: How I write software with LLMs

#282

> One thing I’ve noticed is that different people get wildly different results with LLMs, so I suspect there’s some element of how you’re talking to them that affects the results. It's always easier to blame the prompt and convince yourself that you have some sort of talent in how you talk to LLMs that other's don't. In my experience the differences are mostly in how the code produced by the LLM is reviewed. Develope…

This definitely is the case. I was talking to someone complaining about how llms don't work good. They said it couldn't fix an issue it made. I asked if they gave it any way to validate what it did. They did not, some people really are saying "fix this" instead of saying "x fn is doing y when someone makes a request to it. Please attempt to fix x and validate it by accessing the endpoint after and writing tests" Its…

> Its shocking some people don't give it any real instruction or way to check itself.

It's not shocking. The tech world is telling them that "Claude will write all of their app easily" with zero instructions/guidelines so of course they're going to send prompts like that.

Re: How I write software with LLMs

#283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You did see the part about my unit, integration and scalability testing? The testing harness is what prevents the fragility. It doesn’t matter to AI whether the code is spaghetti code or not. What you said was only important when humans were maintaining the code. No human should ever be forced to look at the code behind my vibe coded internal admin portal that was created with straight Python, no frameworks, server s…

> It doesn’t matter to AI whether the code is spaghetti code or not. What you said was only important when humans were maintaining the code. In my experience using AI to work on existing systems, the AI definitely performs much better on code that humans would consider readable. You can’t really sit here talking about architecting greenfield systems with AI using methodology that didn’t exist 6 months ago while confi…

I wasn’t born into consulting in 1996. AI for coding is by definition the worse today that it will ever be. What makes you think that the complexity of the code will increase faster than the capability of the agents?

Re: How I write software with LLMs

#284

> One thing I’ve noticed is that different people get wildly different results with LLMs, so I suspect there’s some element of how you’re talking to them that affects the results. It's always easier to blame the prompt and convince yourself that you have some sort of talent in how you talk to LLMs that other's don't. In my experience the differences are mostly in how the code produced by the LLM is reviewed. Develope…

This definitely is the case. I was talking to someone complaining about how llms don't work good. They said it couldn't fix an issue it made. I asked if they gave it any way to validate what it did. They did not, some people really are saying "fix this" instead of saying "x fn is doing y when someone makes a request to it. Please attempt to fix x and validate it by accessing the endpoint after and writing tests" Its…

lol that is still “how you’re talking to them that affects the results” just more specific

Re: How I write software with LLMs

#285

I randomly clicked and scrolled through the source code of Stavrobot - The largest thing I’ve built lately is an alternative to OpenClaw that focuses on security. [1] and that is not great code. I have not used any AI to write code yet but considered trying it out - is this the kind of code I should expect? Or maybe the other way around, has someone an example of some non-trivial code - in size and complexity - writt…

> and that is not great code

When you say "is not great code" can you elaborate? Does the code work or not?

Re: How I write software with LLMs

#286
post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only you understanding the how, but you not understanding the goal. I often use AI successfully, but in a few cases I had, it was bad. That was when I didn't even know the end goal and regularly switched the fundamental assumptions that the LLM tried to build up. One case was a simulation where I wanted to see some specific property in the convergence behavior, but I had no idea how it would get there in the dyna…

LLMs massively reduce the cost of "let's just try this". I think trying to migrate your entire repo is usually a fool's errand. Figure out a way to break the load-bearing part of the problem out into a sub-project, solve it there, iterate as much as you like. Claude can give you a test gui in one or two minutes, as often as you like. When you have it reliably working there, make Claude write up a detailed spec and br…

Claude is surprisingly good at GUI work I've been learning, not just getting stuff working but also creating reasonably tasteful and practical designs. Asking claude in the browser to mock up a GUI and then having claude code implement it is a surprisingly powerful workflow.

Re: How I write software with LLMs

#287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As if when you delegate tasks to humans they are deterministic. I would hope that your test cases cover the requirements. If not, your implementation is just as brittle when other developers come online or even when you come back to a project after six months.

1. Agents aren’t humans. A human can write a working 100k LOC application with zero tests (not saying they should but they could and have). An agent cannot do this. Agents require tests to keep them from spinning out and your tests do not cover all of the behaviors you care about. 2. If you doubt that your tests don’t cover all your requirements, 99.9% of every production bug you’ve ever had completely passed your te…

I have never known a human that could or did write 100K lines of bug free working code without running parts of it first and testing.

So humans also don’t write bug free code or tests that cover all use cases - how is that an argument that humans are better?

Re: How I write software with LLMs

#288
10-15 years ago HN was the place where everyone showed off their new shiny toys and people would jump over themselves to try some new framework or db or tool. Now, so much negative sentiment about AI coding. I bet if LLMs came 15 years ago, HN would be brimming with excitement. What happened?

Re: How I write software with LLMs

#289
post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This definitely is the case. I was talking to someone complaining about how llms don't work good. They said it couldn't fix an issue it made. I asked if they gave it any way to validate what it did. They did not, some people really are saying "fix this" instead of saying "x fn is doing y when someone makes a request to it. Please attempt to fix x and validate it by accessing the endpoint after and writing tests" Its…

> Its shocking some people don't give it any real instruction or way to check itself. It's not shocking. The tech world is telling them that "Claude will write all of their app easily" with zero instructions/guidelines so of course they're going to send prompts like that.

It's surprising they don't learn better after their first hour or two of use. Or maybe they do know better but don't like the thing so they deliberately give it rope to hang itself with, then blame overzealous marketting.
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