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ATMs didn’t kill bank teller jobs, but the iPhone did

davidoks.blog

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Re: ATMs didn’t kill bank teller jobs, but the iPhone did

#281

Post by Devasta »

carlosjobim wrote: post #185
irjustin wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But will it? No, because if you think about Startrek the endgame is replicators. Well the concept that 100% of basic needs are met. At some point work becomes unnecessary for a society to function.

We have to grow out of those kind of dreams. That's like a kid dreaming that when he grows up he'll eat ice cream for dinner every day. People when they mature have an innate desire to work. It is good for body and mind. If you're curious about the world, you'll have to do some work one way or another to achieve your goals and satisfy your curiosity. If "society" is just a function of basic needs, then there's plenty…

> People when they mature have an innate desire to work. It is good for body and mind.

That doesn't mean it has to be wage labor though.

Re: ATMs didn’t kill bank teller jobs, but the iPhone did

#282

Post by cogman10 »

nine_k wrote: post #279
stephbook wrote: post #267

I'm based in the rich Western world. Whenever I travel elsewhere, I'm amazed by the cheapness of labor. Humans would attend a gas station or fetch items in a store. Why? They're completely unneeded, I can do (and WANT to do) that myself. I always feel sad about these people, trapped in an economic system that forces them into useless labour when they could spend their time learning actually useful skills.

> fetch items in a store. Why? Because the presence of a human likely prevents shoplifting and / or vandalism. It must make economic sense for the gas station owner to employ a human, and I suppose this is the sense. What actual useful skill do you think the gas station keeper could learn? Is their employment the thing that prevents them from learning these skills?

> What actual useful skill do you think the gas station keeper could learn?

I mean, it's possible there are useful skills they could learn but there's not the interest or desire to learn those skills. It's completely possible that person is perfectly content doing that work.

Re: ATMs didn’t kill bank teller jobs, but the iPhone did

#283

Post by dmazzoni »

ahartmetz wrote: post #7

I do not get what's special about banking apps as opposed to online banking. I've been doing online banking in the browser on a PC since before apps and I'm still doing it because dealing with data on a phone is painful compared to a PC. Is an app really that much easier to use?

I think mobile deposit by scanning a check with your smartphone camera is one piece of it?

I've never seen a bank offer that feature via their website.

Re: ATMs didn’t kill bank teller jobs, but the iPhone did

#284

Post by thegrimmest »

idiotsecant wrote: post #115
alex_sf wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If goods aren't being sold, then the price will drop.

This and other fairytales. The only solution here is to stop tying people's value to their productivity. That makes a lot of sense in the 1900s but it makes a lot less sense when the primary faucet of productivity is automation. If you insist on tying a person's fundamental right to a decent and secure life to their productivity and then take away their ability to be productive you're left with a permenant and growin…

Who ever said you have the right to a decent a secure life? People don’t universally agree about this. Some of us posit that we will never escape a state of competition for fundamentally scarce resources. And that the organizing principle of a free society should be peaceful coexistence, not mandatory cooperation.

You figure out your own economic security, I’ll manage mine.

Re: ATMs didn’t kill bank teller jobs, but the iPhone did

#285

Post by [deleted] »

bluedino wrote: post #43
ahartmetz wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in Europe where the situation is different: checks haven't been used in appreciable numbers for 30 years or so. It's all online or paper transfer orders. If you get a pre-filled paper transfer order, you can type (or scan and OCR I suppose) the same data into the online form.

Your grandma doesn't give you a $10 check for your birthday in Europe? What about manufacturer rebates?

[deleted]

Re: ATMs didn’t kill bank teller jobs, but the iPhone did

#286

Post by usefulcat »

Devasta wrote: post #270
mullingitover wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why should one child get an LLM teacher or doctor while others get individualized attention by a skilled human being? Is the value in the outcome of receiving medical advice and care, and becoming educated, or is the value just in the co-opting of another human being's attention? If the value is in the outcome, the means to achieving that aren't of much consequence.

> the value just in the co-opting of another human being's attention? Thats a weird way of describing it. A machine telling me to exercise and eat right will be ignored, even if the advice is correct. A person I trust taking me aside, looking me in the eye and asking me the same would be taken far more seriously.

That may well be true if you need to be persuaded to exercise and eat right.

OTOH, if you don't need to be persuaded and just want information on how best to go about doing it, then I think it makes little difference where the information comes from as long as it's of reasonable quality.

Re: ATMs didn’t kill bank teller jobs, but the iPhone did

#287

Post by ghaff »

rkomorn wrote: post #223
ghaff wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both my housekeeper and contractor use checks and, while I could get the bank to "write" them checks, it's easier to just hand them a piece of paper. I've also needed to pay my neighbor something from time to time and it's easier to just write a check. I do also periodically receive checks from various institutions.

I guess to me there's just a big difference between what you're describing (which matches what I remember) and "stubbornly check-focused" as ancestor comment said. I do find the money transfer options where I am in Europe much easier, though, and they do make checks and PayPal/Zelle/Venmo pretty obsolete too, IMO.

I think that's fair. I do carry a few checks in my travel folder but I don't think I've ever used them in Europe. Do carry some backup US cash.

But in the US, there's probably a general expectation that you can send or receive checks at least now and then. There are often other options but that's probably the lowest friction one even if my bank can send checks if needed, albeit with some delay.

Re: ATMs didn’t kill bank teller jobs, but the iPhone did

#288

Post by dfxm12 »

ahartmetz wrote: post #7

I do not get what's special about banking apps as opposed to online banking. I've been doing online banking in the browser on a PC since before apps and I'm still doing it because dealing with data on a phone is painful compared to a PC. Is an app really that much easier to use?

I used to do banking on my (touch tone) phone before I did online banking. I still do online banking on my PC because my budget spreadsheet is on my PC, right next to my browser window.

Personally, I don't think this is about banking apps. I'm kinda surprised an article talking about ATMs and teller jobs barely mentions cash, checks & cards and doesn't mention paypal or venmo at all. I used ATMs less when it became less of a necessity to carry cash.

You don't use cash to buy things online. Even in person, outside of brick & mortars, paypal/venmo became in vogue at some point in the past. Those are banking apps in their own way.

Re: ATMs didn’t kill bank teller jobs, but the iPhone did

#289

Post by thegrimmest »

IgorPartola wrote: post #146
ap99 wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking of fairytales, you're living in your own. Disconnecting value from productivity sounds good if you don't examine any of the consequences. Can you build a society from scratch using that principle? If you can't then why would it work on an already built society? Like if we're in an airplane flying, what you're saying is the equivalent getting rid of the wings because they're blocking your view. We're so high…

Imagine a society where one person produces all the value. Their job is to do highly technical maintenance on a single machine that is basically the Star Trek replicator: it produces all the food, clothing, housing, energy, etc. that is enough for every human in this society and the surplus is stored away in case the machine is down for maintenance, which happens occasionally. Maintaining the machine takes very speci…

For something to be deserved, it must be earned. What do these people do to distinguish themselves from The Engineer’s pets? If they are wholly dependant on him for their subsistence, what distinguishes him from their god?

To derive an alternate system you need alternate axioms. The axioms of our liberal society are moral equality and peaceful coexistence. Among such equals, no one person, group, or majority has the right to dictate to another. What axioms do you propose that would constrain The Engineer? How would you prevent enslaving him?

Re: ATMs didn’t kill bank teller jobs, but the iPhone did

#290

Post by balamatom »

ElevenLathe wrote: post #246
babypuncher wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would argue we've even already seen this play out with productivity gains across the economy over the last 40 years. The American middle class has been gradually declining since the '80s. AI seems likely to accelerate that trend for the exact reasons you point out. A lot of people recognize this pattern even if they can't articulate it, and that's why they hate AI so much. To them, it doesn't matter if AI lives up…

> Technological progress that hurts more people than it helps isn't progress, it's class warfare. I think this is right. The historical analogue I keep drifting toward is Enclosure. LLM tech is like Enclosure for knowledge work. A small class of capital-holding winners will benefit. Everyone else will mostly get more desperate and dependent on those few winners for the means of subsistence. Productivity may eventuall…

I like how you identified the pattern of defeat and still complied in advance.
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