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/e/OS is a complete, fully “deGoogled” mobile ecosystem

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Re: /e/OS is a complete, fully “deGoogled” mobile ecosystem

#281

Post by wavemode »

vovavili wrote: post #223
goldenarm wrote: post #9

Tweaking user-hostile OSes into user-friendly ones is impressive, but not sustainable. Even worse, it slowing us down from leaving Android entirely. Look at the AdBlocker crackdown of Google Chrome. Every single chrome-fork has shut down MV2 extensions, even Brave is about to do it, because it is impossible to maintain features that complex on a browser that Google spends >$1B/year to develop. Same story for /e/ and…

Extensions prior to MV3 were notoriously insecure and granted extension developers a very wide attack surface. Assuming that Google only has a sinister reason to switch to a better standard in an ecosystem riddled with ill-intentioned actors is a bit too cynical.

> very wide attack surface.

Do you have details of specific realistic attacks that were possible under MV2 and now impossible under MV3?

Re: /e/OS is a complete, fully “deGoogled” mobile ecosystem

#282

Post by nphardon »

I went *browserless on my device and it has solved my screen compulsion issues with very little downside. It has been the most effective step I've ever taken. I realized I really love msg'ing friends, having access to maps and navigation, banking, just a handful of apps (no google apps), and that all along it was the browser.

*ios doesnt let you delete Safari so I set a 10 minute timer on it, and i dont have any adblock or content filtering enabled, so it's essentially only good for brief checks (auto-shop phone number, quick news check, etc.) but is useless for anything beyond that.

Re: /e/OS is a complete, fully “deGoogled” mobile ecosystem

#283

Post by pigpag »

goldenarm wrote: post #9

Tweaking user-hostile OSes into user-friendly ones is impressive, but not sustainable. Even worse, it slowing us down from leaving Android entirely. Look at the AdBlocker crackdown of Google Chrome. Every single chrome-fork has shut down MV2 extensions, even Brave is about to do it, because it is impossible to maintain features that complex on a browser that Google spends >$1B/year to develop. Same story for /e/ and…

[dead]

Re: /e/OS is a complete, fully “deGoogled” mobile ecosystem

#284

Post by yndoendo »

well_ackshually wrote: post #53
goldenarm wrote: post #9

Tweaking user-hostile OSes into user-friendly ones is impressive, but not sustainable. Even worse, it slowing us down from leaving Android entirely. Look at the AdBlocker crackdown of Google Chrome. Every single chrome-fork has shut down MV2 extensions, even Brave is about to do it, because it is impossible to maintain features that complex on a browser that Google spends >$1B/year to develop. Same story for /e/ and…

>Even worse, it slowing us down from leaving Android entirely. There are zero OSes that are 1/ open source 2/ appropriate for phones 3/ with good hardware support. There's absolutely nothing. Running Ubuntu Touch isn't a viable option. Neither is postmarket, librem, tizen, they're all terrible. Security wise, for something as critically important in our lives as a smartphone, I am also not trusting any new pet projec…

FLX1s running FurioOS, a Debian variant. [0]

World would be better off if they De-Google and De-Apple! You have to pay me to use Google and Apple!

[0] https://furilabs.com/

Re: /e/OS is a complete, fully “deGoogled” mobile ecosystem

#285

Post by sciencejerk »

yndoendo wrote: post #284
well_ackshually wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Even worse, it slowing us down from leaving Android entirely. There are zero OSes that are 1/ open source 2/ appropriate for phones 3/ with good hardware support. There's absolutely nothing. Running Ubuntu Touch isn't a viable option. Neither is postmarket, librem, tizen, they're all terrible. Security wise, for something as critically important in our lives as a smartphone, I am also not trusting any new pet projec…

FLX1s running FurioOS, a Debian variant. [0] World would be better off if they De-Google and De-Apple! You have to pay me to use Google and Apple! [0] https://furilabs.com/

Do you own one? How is camera and audio and geolocation support? Decent?

Re: /e/OS is a complete, fully “deGoogled” mobile ecosystem

#286

Post by leke »

goldenarm wrote: post #9

Tweaking user-hostile OSes into user-friendly ones is impressive, but not sustainable. Even worse, it slowing us down from leaving Android entirely. Look at the AdBlocker crackdown of Google Chrome. Every single chrome-fork has shut down MV2 extensions, even Brave is about to do it, because it is impossible to maintain features that complex on a browser that Google spends >$1B/year to develop. Same story for /e/ and…

Oh, is this the deal with GrapheneOS too? Damn, I was excited about the Moto GrapheneOS collaboration.

Re: /e/OS is a complete, fully “deGoogled” mobile ecosystem

#287

Post by abustamam »

seanhunter wrote: post #172
abustamam wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problems may be inflicted by these apps but the reality is that in many cases you're stuck with them. Electric company freezes your account if you enable USB debugging? Well, you can't choose a new electric company. We can complain to these vendors all we want but they just ignore us. So these problems become problems of the OS, not because the OS has a problem, but because it affects the reality of using the OS.

It obviously depends on where you live. In my country you certainly con choose a new electric company. I mention that because we really should use consumer choice to overcome these types of problems where we can. Ie if you can switch to a bank/electricity provider/whatever that has a less terrible app it’s really good to do so.

I agree on principle. I'm not sure if everywhere in the US is like this, but everywhere I've lived in California basically had a monopolistic electric and gas provider.

For things where we do have a choice, yes I agree.

Re: /e/OS is a complete, fully “deGoogled” mobile ecosystem

#288

Post by bornfreddy »

lpcvoid wrote: post #2

There's absolutely no reason to use /e/ when GrapheneOS exists. https://eylenburg.github.io/android_comparison.htm

As someone who switched from FP4 with /e/OS to GrapheneOS - absolutely not true.

My reason for switching was a bug where the phone calls didn't display the caller number. So I switched to GOS in hope it would be better... and it is, but not in all areas. For example their insistence on not supporting MicroG leads to poor UX, because let's face it, you can't trust Google services, even sandboxed, to not syphon tons of data into the cloud. MicroG was easybto use for privacy. They also seem to be very opinionated about (not) using a firewall for privacy, like NetGuard, instead recommending some weird alternatives like DNS firewalls. And don't get me started on their icons - I don't mind ugly-ish icons, but they are taking the ugliness to a whole new level.

GrapheneOS is not a bad OS, but it is very opinionated, and they (heavily) prioritize security over privacy. When I turn FP4 on, I still like it way better than GOS. Still, I like seeing who is calling, so I'm not going back... Ymmv.

Re: /e/OS is a complete, fully “deGoogled” mobile ecosystem

#289

Post by WorldMaker »

samrus wrote: post #87
goldenarm wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do agree, mobile OSS OSes are rough. My point is that we should help them instead of helping Google's toxic relationship. It happened with Chrome/Blink, and everyone already forgot that lesson. About hard-forking Android, no one was brave enough (pun intended) to do that for Chrome, considering the insane complexity and engineering costs (>$1B/y). (Only Apple was able to affort it with Webkit/Safari, but they are i…

I kinda dont see how both of you cant be right. We need a mobile OS that google isnt involved in. Why not use pure open source android to do it. It can only be cheaper than making it from scratch, since it has alot of work already done on it

AOSP has so few of the features a full phone needs today. Google has moved too much of the Phone OS into "Google Play Services". This is already the Extend phase of the classic "embrace, extend, extinguish". Given how the next most popular AOSP implementation, Amazon's Kindle Fire isn't even trying to compete in the phone space and involves an equally large company throwing nearly as much money into an "also ran" alternative to "Google Play Services", it seems easy enough to argue Android may even already be in the extinguish phase.

(ETA: See also Microsoft's many years of trying to build its own "Google Play Services" competitor. Eventually breaking and making use of Amazon's. Then giving up entirely again on a de-Googled alternative to running Android apps.)

Re: /e/OS is a complete, fully “deGoogled” mobile ecosystem

#290

Post by vovavili »

wavemode wrote: post #281
vovavili wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Extensions prior to MV3 were notoriously insecure and granted extension developers a very wide attack surface. Assuming that Google only has a sinister reason to switch to a better standard in an ecosystem riddled with ill-intentioned actors is a bit too cynical.

> very wide attack surface. Do you have details of specific realistic attacks that were possible under MV2 and now impossible under MV3?

A very quick Google search could have done the trick for you - https://developer.chrome.com/docs/extensions/develop/migrate...
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