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I fixed Windows native development

marler8997.github.io

281–290 of 406 posts

Re: I fixed Windows native development

#281
post #64

Toolchains on linux are not clear from dependency hell either - ever install an npm package that needs cmake underneath? glibc dependencies that can't be resolved because you need two different versions simultaneously in the same build somehow... python in another realm here as well. That shiny c++ project that needs a bleeding edge boost version that is about 6 months away from being included in your package manager…

Well, traditionally, there was no Python/pip, JS/npm in Linux development, and for C/C++ development, the package manager approach worked surprisingly well for a long time. However, there were version problems: some Linux distributions had only stable packages and therefore lacked the latest updates, and some had problems with multiple versions of the same library. This gave rise to the language-specific package mana…

Nix devShells works quite well for Python development (don't know about JS) Nixpkgs is also quite up to date. I haven't looked back, since adopting Nix for my dev environments.

Re: I fixed Windows native development

#283
I'm not trying to diminish or take away from this post but Visual Studio is an IDE and is not necessary to build an App.

You just need the required build tools.

If you've ever had to setup a CI/CD pipeline for a Visual Studio project then you've had to do this.

Re: I fixed Windows native development

#284

[dead]

Trollish usernames aren't allowed on HN, so we've banned this account*. If you want to pick a different username that isn't trollish, we can rename the account and unban it. It would be best to email hn@ycombinator.com for this, to make sure we get the message.

(It would have been better for us to catch this sooner, but in this case someone had to explain the name to me. Out of respect for HN's many Francophone readers, I think it's best to apply the rule.)

* https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme...

Re: I fixed Windows native development

#285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Point? I’m SRE on .Net project, we have been through 6-8-10 and its cost us about 2ish hours of work each time. As long as you don’t get crazy, .Net upgrades is just matter of new SDK and runtime and away you go.

You're talking about .net for server applications right? The discussion above is for client apps being distributed for windows endusers.

Just ship a self contained build?

Re: I fixed Windows native development

#286

Is this post AI-written? The repeated lists with highlighted key points, the "it's not just [x], but [y]" and "no [a] just [b]" scream LLM to me. It would be good to know how much of this post and this project was human-built.

I analyzed the test using Pangram, which is apparently reliable, it say "Fully human Written" without ambiguity.[1] I personally like the content and the style of the article. I never managed to accept going through the pain to install and use Visual Studio and all these absurd procedures they impose to their users. [1] https://www.pangram.com/history/300b4af2-cd58-4767-aced-c4d2...

This honestly just tells me that Panagram is hot garbage

Re: I fixed Windows native development

#287
Gross ignorance and incompetence.

TLDR: I don't understand my native command line, see how lost I got when I tried to do my thing in a different environment.

- Not a unique problem to Windows or even MSVC; He's gonna hate XCode, - Making Python a bootstrap dependency = fail, - Lacks self-awareness to recognize aversion vs avoidance,

My background is distinctly non-Windows, but I survive around Windows so well that people think I'm a Mickeysoft type. And no, I don't use mingw, cygwin, ...

If any of the obstacles this user faced were legitimate, nobody would ever make any money on Windows, including and especially Microsoft - a company whose developers have the same challenges.

I'm being harsh because _mea quondam culpa_ and it's correctable.

Everything this user went thru is the result of aversion instead of avoidance.

To _avoid_ long deep dives into Windows, you need to recognize there is a different vocabulary and a radically different jargon dialect at play.

1. Learn a tiny minimum of Powershell; it's based on the same POSIX spec as bash and zsh, but like Python, Javascript, etc, instead of byte as the fundamental unit, they use objects. So there's less to learn to reach a greater level of convenience than soiling yourself with DOS/CMD/BAT. On Windows, pwsh has a default set of linux-like aliases to minimize the learning required for minimal operability. And never have to type \ instead of / for a directory separator.

2. Microsoft make money from training. To sell their meat-free steak (* ingredient: saw dust), they feed the suits an all-you-can-eat calorie, nutrition, and protein free buffet of documenting everything in great detail and routinely "streamlining" the names and terminology.

Development on Windows is in a different reference frame, but relative to their own reference frames, they're ultimately not all that different.

Approach in your "foreign language" mindset; English alphabet but the words mean different things.

3. What not how. "How do I grep" means you are trying to random access bytes out of a random access character stream. "What's the command to search for text in files?" well, if you're bloody mindedly using cmd, then it's "find".

4. Seriously, learn a little Powershell.

I only approached Powershell hoping to gain material for a #SatansSphincter anti-ms rant while using it as a Rosetta Stone for porting shell scripts in our CI for Windows.

I mean, it is based on the same POSIX spec as sh, bash, and zsh, with a little Perl thrown in. That can't not go horribly, insidiously, 30-rock wrong in the hands of MS, right?

Turned out, it's the same paradigm shift perl/shell users have to make when coming into Python:

from `system("ps | grep hung")` to `"hung" in system("ps")`; from `system("ifconfig -a | sed 's/\`grep` is a command that applies an assumption to a byte stream, often the output of a command.

In powershell, executing a command is an expression. In the case of a simple command, like "ps", that expression resolves to a String, just like system(...) does in Python.

Learning even a small amount of Powershell is immensely helpful in better understanding your enemy if you're going to have to deal with Windows. The formal names for official things use "verb-singularnoun".

That last part of the convention is the magic: the naming of things on Windows is madness designed to sell certifications, so crazy even MS ultimately had to provide themselves a guide.

Re: I fixed Windows native development

#288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I analyzed the test using Pangram, which is apparently reliable, it say "Fully human Written" without ambiguity.[1] I personally like the content and the style of the article. I never managed to accept going through the pain to install and use Visual Studio and all these absurd procedures they impose to their users. [1] https://www.pangram.com/history/300b4af2-cd58-4767-aced-c4d2...

This honestly just tells me that Panagram is hot garbage

These days I'm always wondering whether what I'm reading is LLM-slop or the actual writing of a person who contracted AI-isms by spending hours a day talking to them.

Re: I fixed Windows native development

#289
post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, seems like this is just ignorance around .vsconfig files. Makes life way easier. You can also just use the VS Build Tools exe to install things instead of the full VS installer, if you plan to use a different IDE.

Can you use .vsconfig to tell Build Tools what your project needs? Can you generate .vsconfig with Build Tools?

You pass in the --config param to import it.

Exporting this way might be possible but it wouldn't be as useful seeing as it would just grab everything you have installed instead of some minimal set used by some project.

Re: I fixed Windows native development

#290
post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps people have mimicked the style because LLMs have popularized it and clearly it serves some benefit to readers.

> have popularized it It's hated by everyone, why would people imitate it? You're inventing a rationale that either doesn't exist or would be stupider than the alternative. The obvious answer here it they just used an LLM. > and clearly it serves some benefit to readers. What?

> It's hated by everyone, why would people imitate it?

It could be involuntary. People often adopt the verbal tics of the content they read and the people they talk with.

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