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Google Fulfilled ICE Subpoena Demanding Student Journalist Credit Card Number

theintercept.com

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Re: Google Fulfilled ICE Subpoena Demanding Student Journalist Credit Card Number

#281

Post by danans »

jeffbee wrote: post #272
hsuduebc2 wrote: post #8

Just out of curiosity. Are there any companies today that are seen the way Google used to be seen, as a generally “good” corporation/companies that are also a important player? Maybe Mozilla Foundation?

By the way, perhaps your point of view on Google has evolved but on the question of the way Google is seen today by American consumers it is still right up there with Kleenex and Jesus. Furthermore, pretty much everyone, in America and abroad, views business as both more ethical and more effective than governments and non-governmental organizations.

> Furthermore, pretty much everyone, in America and abroad, views business as both more ethical and more effective than governments and non-governmental organizations.

"Transnational oligarchic mega-corporations" !== "business".

People don't like the former. They like businesses that operate at closer to human and community scale.

Re: Google Fulfilled ICE Subpoena Demanding Student Journalist Credit Card Number

#282

Post by tick_tock_tick »

dmix wrote: post #135
dathinab wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the only way to legally search a house, car or force companies to hand anything over is with a judge signing it off the article isn't clear about it but it implies that this was not approved by a judge but DHS alone, this is also indicated but the fact that the supona contained a gag order but Google still informed the affected person that _some_ information was hanged over now some level of cooperation with law enfo…

Apparently around 300 students have been deported over pro-Palestine activism, similar to the person in the article who self-deported https://www.themarshallproject.org/2025/04/05/visa-immigrati... > Legally, the answer is murky, one expert told The Washington Post — at least when it comes to combing through Supreme Court decisions for answers. The court has been clear that First Amendment protections from criminal o…

Why is this a bad thing? It's just like India kicking out those two tourists for political signs. I can't see any benefit at all to allowing tourist or student visas is this case to participate in "activism".

https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/india-orders-british-tou...

Re: Google Fulfilled ICE Subpoena Demanding Student Journalist Credit Card Number

#283

Post by reliabilityguy »

abustamam wrote: post #273
reliabilityguy wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Usually they do not hold them for very long. I am confused here. If the law grants ICE (or whatever is the umbrella agency that ICE operates under) the power to detain to determine legality of the status, ICE does it, and then releases people back, the law works as intended, no? I am confused what is the difference between this, and police who can detain a “tall man in black short and red hat” and 10 hours later (o…

Replace "tall man in black short and red hat who may have committed a violent crime" with "anyone who looks like they may speak Spanish even if no crime has been committed," even if they have a valid government ID card and we arrive at the problem with ICE.

> "anyone who looks like they may speak Spanish even if no crime has been committed,"

There are two parts to it in my view.

First, sure, I understand where you are coming from. At the same time I find this argument a bit problematic because if the numbers on border crossings from South America are true, and majority of those that crossed through are from South and Central America, who do you think ICE is going to look for? Tall, blond, white people from Norway (and I am not saying that there are no people who are out of status from Norway)?

Second, while Trump and co claimed that they will go after "only after criminals", and ICE arrests a bunch of people who may be not criminals in the hardcore sense of killers, etc., but they do arrest a significant amount of those as well. I do not understand this -- if the person crossed the border, are they supposed to get a pass just because? Why?

Re: Google Fulfilled ICE Subpoena Demanding Student Journalist Credit Card Number

#284

Post by tick_tock_tick »

frumplestlatz wrote: post #155
PlatoIsADisease wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wild guess: You like Apple more than Google. I only guessed that because that is a strange conclusion to draw when Apple was involved in PRISM, they worked with China to black pro- democracy hong kong apps, and I believe they turned over data to China and Russia. Apple's PR/marketing is best in class, so I can also see this just being a knowledge level error rather than bias.

You don't have to like Apple to recognize that they take a materially different stance from Google when it comes to user privacy. Take this, for example: https://support.apple.com/en-us/102630 You can trivially disable web access to your data; at that point, Apple literally does not have the keys to your end-to-end encrypted data and cannot read or disclose it.

Exactly Apple has and will continue to comply whatever is needed to help authoritarian regimes to crush their citizens while Google refused to. It's hard to look at Apple in any other light.

Re: Google Fulfilled ICE Subpoena Demanding Student Journalist Credit Card Number

#285

Post by SanjayMehta »

moate wrote: post #257
shevy-java wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how what has been described here as "the system works as intended". A free state should not be able to sniff after people for made up reasons.

No, this is absolutely the system working as intended: The State exists to protect large monied interests and their power, and those entities in exchange will sell out individuals to the State that seek to undermine their power. The State will never not do this. Like, I realize I'm the rambling anarchist up in here, but show me ANY government ever that didn't Murder and Pillage, two things that we all hate when perpe…

> The State exists to protect large monied interests and their power, and those entities in exchange will sell out individuals to the State that seek to undermine their power. The State will never not do this.

Reminds me of a certain ideology, can't quite put my finger on it.

I think it starts with F

Re: Google Fulfilled ICE Subpoena Demanding Student Journalist Credit Card Number

#287

Post by mulmen »

BLKNSLVR wrote: post #279
mulmen wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would we accept that instead of changing it?

My interpretation of ModernMech's comment is that acceptance is a pre-requisite of changing it. ie. if you didn't accept it, then you wouldn't feel the need to change it.

I agree that is the most favorable interpretation.

Re: Google Fulfilled ICE Subpoena Demanding Student Journalist Credit Card Number

#288

Post by Retric »

b00ty4breakfast wrote: post #72
legitster wrote: post #32

So I don't think I actually have a problem with businesses handing over their customer data if there is a valid warrant or subpoena. That's the system working as intended. The main crux of the problem here is that the DHS has been granted a wide berth by congress to issue administrative subpoenas - i.e. not reviewed by a real judge and not directed at criminals. In "good" times this made investigations run smoothly.…

There will always be the opportunity for the foibles of humans to affect the procedures of the law. Trying to play "guess if the shadowy government agency is doing the right thing this week" is a losing game. They always take the proverbial mile, they are not ever going to be satisfied with the inch.

There’s definitely been variability in how far government agencies have been pushing under this administration.

It’s going to get interesting if the next Democrat in the white house takes similar steps based on current precedent. That would hopefully result in long term reforms, but we might just be heading to civil war regardless.

Re: Google Fulfilled ICE Subpoena Demanding Student Journalist Credit Card Number

#289

Post by mindslight »

chaps wrote: post #123
mindslight wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm getting tired of these comments that normalize being in the middle of the slippery slope as if it is merely the same as being at the top of the slippery slope was. They may not have been "good" times, but they were certainly better times when government agencies at least aimed to carry out their roles in good faith rather than minmaxing the rules to cause the most damage to enemies of the Party. Applying judgemen…

And I'm getting tired of these comments that normalize the awfulness of the past. We can be pragmatic in recognizing that "our guys" also did bad things. Less bad than awful is still bad. If we choose not to recognize our own foibles then we just fall down our old patterns of "it's someone else's problem". Because otherwise, better than what we have now is an abysmal target and we should aim for better.

> We can be pragmatic in recognizing that "our guys" also did bad things

What do you mean "our guys" ? I don't have guys. I consider myself a libertarian, was both sidesing up until June of 2020, and had never voted for a major party in a national election until 2020 when I voted for Biden - which I view as me getting older and more conservative - aka valuing our societal institutions and values after seeing how much Trump openly trashed them instead of showing an ounce of leadership during Covid.

Even with this perspective, I still think it is foolish to write off the current administration as if it's just another iteration of back and forth corruption rather than a shameless wholesale kicking over of the apple cart.

Re: Google Fulfilled ICE Subpoena Demanding Student Journalist Credit Card Number

#290

Post by slg »

b00ty4breakfast wrote: post #72
legitster wrote: post #32

So I don't think I actually have a problem with businesses handing over their customer data if there is a valid warrant or subpoena. That's the system working as intended. The main crux of the problem here is that the DHS has been granted a wide berth by congress to issue administrative subpoenas - i.e. not reviewed by a real judge and not directed at criminals. In "good" times this made investigations run smoothly.…

There will always be the opportunity for the foibles of humans to affect the procedures of the law. Trying to play "guess if the shadowy government agency is doing the right thing this week" is a losing game. They always take the proverbial mile, they are not ever going to be satisfied with the inch.

>Trying to play "guess if the shadowy government agency is doing the right thing this week" is a losing game.

Which is why the best strategy is to bring things out of the shadows and have the government operate in the open whether that is more literal by making their actions part of the public record or just figuratively by requiring a lot of disparate parts of the government to coordinate on something like this so it can only go wrong with truly widespread corruption.

Playing a cat and mouse game with the government via technology is also a losing game. They'll always have more money, people, and expertise on their side. When the heart of the problem is the humans involved, the solution is inherently politics.

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