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Exactly. Now, remember how everyone gaslit us into saying we'd always have a choice? We told you so.
Linux From Scratch ends SysVinit support
281–290 of 416 posts
Re: Linux From Scratch ends SysVinit support
#282Has the entire industry converged on Systemd then
Almost. Not Alpine and a few others.
Re: Linux From Scratch ends SysVinit support
#283Why not discontinue original coreutils and original sudo while we're at it?
I think you're joking but they will. Eventually stystemd will consume everything and that work has already begun, quite literally.
Re: Linux From Scratch ends SysVinit support
#284Earlier quoted context omitted.
The article is not about UNIX, what's good and bad, but what's better for understanding Linux. And replacing SysVInit with systemd is, objectively, bad for understand the core of Linux. And this is the core of LFS. Discussing whether UNIX is good or bad seems narrow-minded, as there is no solution to that. It's like discussing whether iOS is better than Android. We can always isolate some specific parts and discuss t…
> And replacing SysVInit with systemd is, objectively, bad for understand the core of Linux. I know there are strong opinions on this, but isn’t systemd part of the core of most Linux desktops nowadays?
All of my Debian out of the box has systemd. On Gentoo it's OpenRC, which I find easier. But! There are some work-around packages that implement some stubs of systemd things because other packages are designed for systemd only world (one such stub is elogind)
Re: Linux From Scratch ends SysVinit support
#285This is a mindblower. To quote Bruce Dubbs: ''As a personal note, I do not like this decision. To me LFS is about learning how a system works. Understanding the boot process is a big part of that. systemd is about 1678 "C" files plus many data files. System V is "22" C files plus about 50 short bash scripts and data files. Yes, systemd provides a lot of capabilities, but we will be losing some things I consider impor…
Runit is 5474 SLOCs. Most source files are shorter than 100 lines. Works like a charm. Implements an init system; does not replace DNS, syslog, inetd, or anything else. Systemd, by construction, is a set of Unix-replacing daemons. An ideal embedded system setup is kernel, systemd, and the containers it runs (even without podman). This makes sense, especially given the Red Hat's line of business, but it has little rel…
> Implements an init system; does not replace DNS, syslog, inetd, or anything else
Neither does systemd its init.
Unknowledgeable people keep confusing systemd the init and systemd the daemon / utility suite. You can use just the init system without pulling in resolved or networkd or whatever.
Systemd is the Unix philosophy of lots of modularity. But because all the systemd daemons come from the same shop, you get a lot of creature comforts if you use them together. Nothing bad about that.
Re: Linux From Scratch ends SysVinit support
#286This is a mindblower. To quote Bruce Dubbs: ''As a personal note, I do not like this decision. To me LFS is about learning how a system works. Understanding the boot process is a big part of that. systemd is about 1678 "C" files plus many data files. System V is "22" C files plus about 50 short bash scripts and data files. Yes, systemd provides a lot of capabilities, but we will be losing some things I consider impor…
Runit is 5474 SLOCs. Most source files are shorter than 100 lines. Works like a charm. Implements an init system; does not replace DNS, syslog, inetd, or anything else. Systemd, by construction, is a set of Unix-replacing daemons. An ideal embedded system setup is kernel, systemd, and the containers it runs (even without podman). This makes sense, especially given the Red Hat's line of business, but it has little rel…
One might almost say a Hird of Unix-Replacing Daemons.
Re: Linux From Scratch ends SysVinit support
#287Earlier quoted context omitted.
systemd-boot competes with grub
Outside of Arch(-derived) enthusiast circles, I haven't seen systemd-boot used anywhere. It has some really nice tools and features that Grub lacks (i.e. it has tooling for checking the state of things like secure boot and analysing the security risks of your boot configuration), but every mainstream Linux OS I've used still relies on tools like Grub to boot. I have some gripes with systemd-boot's limitations (notabl…
NixOS uses it by default
Re: Linux From Scratch ends SysVinit support
#288Earlier quoted context omitted.
The whole GNU / Red Hat platform is this way. Try switching out Glibc. You get the same "you have to use all our stuff" dependencies.
Switching out glibc is pretty easy compared to systemd. That's the thing peoplle don't get. systemd is seriously insidius, like a virus.
I've personally run Gentoo with OpenRC+glibc and OpenRC+musl on my laptop. I assure you ditching systemd was easier than ditching glibc. The OpenRC system mostly just works (tbh thanks to a lot of great work by Gentoo devs). The musl system required probably a couple dozen patches to various packages to get a basic fully working desktop (most of which were relatively straightforward, but still needed manual intervention).
Re: Linux From Scratch ends SysVinit support
#289Sadly is Linux is no longer what is used to be for my generation that cut their teeth having to patch kernels for basic hardware support. Linux is now effectively systemd/linux, and is attempting to become flatpak/systemd/linux through various corporate sponsored initiatives. The only thing worse, in my eyes, are people who distribute things as docker containers. The Linux distro as such is becoming an anachronism. T…
> Linux is now effectively systemd/linux This is my issue with systemd. I wanted Linux because I wanted to have a choice. The philosophy was that users should have a choice. Systemd goes against that: it's taking over everything and more and more projects require systemd. Flatpak as well: if a project only supports flatpak, chances are that it won't be easy to package normally. So if I don't use Flatpak, I'm screwed.…
> Developers don't have to package their project for all distros
Essentially nobody uses the sources we provide. Literally nobody packages them. A few people use our rpm and deb packages, but the vast majority uses a (slightly broken and outdated) docker image built by third party.
You might not like it, and I certainly do not, but unfortunately containers seem to be the best alternative that just works, compared to everything else.
Re: Linux From Scratch ends SysVinit support
#290Earlier quoted context omitted.
Who's the guy with Firefox 147 32-bit x86 who downloaded a patch? Nice to see there's still at least a few 32-bit users left out there. My system cross compiles to i686, and builds as multilib (both 32-bit and 64-bit libraries) for x86-64 as well, FYI. Some of these User Agents have to be fake. Android 6.0.1 with Chrome 144, really? lol
Some wise guy has a "Linux/SystemD" user agent. lol This fella would like to have a word with you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfELJU1mRMg