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ASML staffing changes could result in a net reduction of around 1700 positions

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Re: ASML staffing changes could result in a net reduction of around 1700 positions

#281

Post by retired »

consp wrote: post #252
retired wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unemployment benefits is something you build up during your career, not just your current employer. For each year in employment you get one month of unemployment. The limit is 24 months. And with the current job market, someone with ASML on their resume probably isn't on the bench for more than six months.

That changed in 2016 to 0.5 months per year.

After the first ten years of employment. You also have CAOs (collective labour agreement) that are more favourable. It all depends on your work history, what CAOs you worked under and when you started work.

Re: ASML staffing changes could result in a net reduction of around 1700 positions

#282

Post by ragazzina »

Black616Angel wrote: post #51

I was completely caught off-guard, because initially I read the headline as "ASMR of firing 1,700 people, mostly managers" which I would listen to

Yeah I also like the sound of people getting their lives ruined, especially when it makes a company leaner and more profitable.

Re: ASML staffing changes could result in a net reduction of around 1700 positions

#283

Post by lelanthran »

elric wrote: post #71
skrebbel wrote: post #13

The press release ( https://www.asml.com/en/news/press-releases/2026/strengtheni... ) seems remarkably to the point, for CEO press release standards. I'm impressed by their ambition to fire 1700 managers (!) That's a lot of managers! I interviewed with ASML a decade and a half ago and while there was plenty to complain about (eg their tens of millions of lines of absolutely unmaintainable C code), I didn't feel at th…

> I interviewed with ASML a decade and a half ago and while there was plenty to complain about (eg their tens of millions of lines of absolutely unmaintainable C code) How is one exposed to tens of millions of lines of unmaintainable code during an interview?

> How is one exposed to tens of millions of lines of unmaintainable code during an interview?

You ... ask? I've gotten answers like this just by asking in the interview.

Re: ASML staffing changes could result in a net reduction of around 1700 positions

#284

Post by lelanthran »

npstr wrote: post #238
101008 wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not fan of managers, but these are people with families behind them. 1,700 is a lot of families that may go into stress and who knows what. Let's just now talk about them as if they were just rows in a database. (I am not saying OP is talking like that about them, but I am seeing some responses that do...)

Sorry, but the empathy is misplaced. These people working bullshit jobs are dragging down the whole organization. If bullshit jobs are allowed to proliferate, they risk the even larger number of jobs (and families) of the people doing the actual work.

Sure, but mass layoffs do not necessarily mean that they are laying off the people not doing anything.

Re: ASML staffing changes could result in a net reduction of around 1700 positions

#285

Post by lelanthran »

Aromasin wrote: post #86
nialv7 wrote: post #77

It's insane to me how the manager culture is. Somehow going from an engineer to a manager is a "promotion"? No, they are equals. Just different people doing different kinds of jobs. There should be two tracks and people should be able to choose. If engineers feel they have to become managers to grow their careers, all you are getting will just be unhappy engineers and bad managers.

I know it's ironic to say this about Intel, a notoriously management heavy company, but they did do the dual tracks which I always appreciated. A principal engineer was functionally on par with a senior manager, and a fellow with a VP. This meant that good engineers weren't forced into roles they weren't interested in, and why many stayed there 20+ years. The issue is, even with two tracks, there's every chance that…

> Your success [as a manager] can be built from your teams success, rather than your own individual contribution.

Well, yes. That's what good managers are: a force multiplier.

A bunch of rockstar devs reporting to a poor manager may never move the needle in an organisation. A bunch of below average devs reporting to a stellar manager will definitely move the needle.

Re: ASML staffing changes could result in a net reduction of around 1700 positions

#286

Post by locknitpicker »

joe_mamba wrote: post #99
lnsru wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work for a small German company. Some time ago the owner sold it to big bloated company. At the time under the owner the management circle was 6 people, now it’s 17!!!!! And the revenue is lower with bigger headcount, because managers manage and do not work. I almost cry at work from sadness. So much potential wasted, the company has great market access and still good name. Polishing old products would make this ho…

I know. I work for a mid sized German company in the auto industry, and when our SW project was going to shit due to insufficient resources and mismanagement from the start, what they did to address it was not to add more developers, but add two managers from other projects to our daily standup, which became a 45-60 minute daily, and I'll let you guess if that improved the product deliverables and team morale. German…

> when our SW project was going to shit due to insufficient resources and mismanagement from the start, what they did to address it was not to add more developers, but add two managers from other projects to our daily standup, which became a 45-60 minute daily, and I'll let you guess if that improved the product deliverables and team morale.

That's what you do if your goal is to blame developers for the project failing, and you double-down on management to underline the root cause as developers going off rails and thus the fix is to reign them in with management. The managers jumping on board have no downside as the project was either doomed or they flexed their superior management skills to revive the project.

Re: ASML staffing changes could result in a net reduction of around 1700 positions

#287

Post by joe_mamba »

f1shy wrote: post #280
joe_mamba wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>external "certified code reviewers" That's another big issue with Germany, is they obsess over certifications when hiring, as if they're some confidence of high quality hiring bar, when a lot of those certifications and degrees in the IT industry are just scams. I think it's caused by the fact that firing a bad hire is super difficult past the probation period, and since HR/recruiters are clueless on screening what…

That plus the german system of "Zeugnisse", which if you squint you will see that is totally against GDPR and even constitution: whereby you get marked (for life) by your employer with a document that has the same validity as any other public document, they "document" your performance (according to you current boss, anyway, in case you do not have a good relation you don't get a good certificate) in a language which…

I hate that shit too, but the zeugniss situation is in practice not that draconical these days AFAIK I can't remember the last time anyone wanted to read what previous employers said about me,at least in software/hardware industry. Maybe it's different in more credentialed professions like medicine or civil engineering.

They just want to check that you actually worked where you said you worked in your resume, and today you have other official governmental digital records you can pull to prove that.

Re: ASML staffing changes could result in a net reduction of around 1700 positions

#288

Post by acdha »

joe_mamba wrote: post #99
lnsru wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work for a small German company. Some time ago the owner sold it to big bloated company. At the time under the owner the management circle was 6 people, now it’s 17!!!!! And the revenue is lower with bigger headcount, because managers manage and do not work. I almost cry at work from sadness. So much potential wasted, the company has great market access and still good name. Polishing old products would make this ho…

I know. I work for a mid sized German company in the auto industry, and when our SW project was going to shit due to insufficient resources and mismanagement from the start, what they did to address it was not to add more developers, but add two managers from other projects to our daily standup, which became a 45-60 minute daily, and I'll let you guess if that improved the product deliverables and team morale. German…

To be fair, the cycle of adding overhead until efficiency improves is the norm in American companies, too. There are a handful of companies which do better but don’t make the mistake of assuming even a majority do.

Re: ASML staffing changes could result in a net reduction of around 1700 positions

#289

Post by mns »

jansan wrote: post #124
joe_mamba wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Within a couple of years the Philips people were able to transform the company to be very management/top heavy until nothing worked anymore You see the same pattern with Siemens and a lot of their spinoffs: Continental(VDO), Infineon, Qimonda, Gigaset, Healthineers (yes, that's a real name that somebody got paid to come up with), etc THe ones without some major moat like trains or energy, got slowly run into the gr…

Siemens Energy (which meanwhile is completely separated from Siemens) did a massive cleanup of their management overhead two or three years ago. They cut several layers and a lot of managers got downgraded or let go. Looking at their stock performance it seems they did the right thing. I really hope that other German enterprises will use this as an example.

As I was following Siemens Energy in these years, I remember them getting a huge bailout, or you can call it help or whatever, at one point and from there on the stock price started going up.

Re: ASML staffing changes could result in a net reduction of around 1700 positions

#290

Post by uxcolumbo »

menaerus wrote: post #180
flyinglizard wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whatsapp is a strong net positive. This is the world’s communication network (I’m counting US out because it is counting itself out)

WhatsApp was not developed by Meta. They just bought it. That said, I don't think Meta/FB is a net-negative, far from it. They contributed back to the community with high quality infra-level software.

Sometimes we in the tech community need to poke our heads out of our tech silos.

Once you do, you will see how much societal damage Meta has caused under Zuck's leadership.

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