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Frustrating. Are there any truly uncensored models left though? Especially ones that are hosted by some service?
Qwen3-Max-Thinking
281–290 of 450 posts
Re: Qwen3-Max-Thinking
#282Earlier quoted context omitted.
nowhere near to China. In US almost anything could be discussed - usually only unlawful things are censored by government. Private entities might have their own policies, but government censorship is fairly small.
In the US, yes, by the law, in principle. In practice, you will have loss of clients, of investors, of opportunities (banned from Play Store, etc). In Europe, on top of that, you will get fines, loss of freedom, etc.
I see you trying to equalize the arugment, but it sounds like you are conflating rules, regulations and rights versus actual censorship.
Generally the West, besides recent Trump admins, we aren't censored about talking about things. The right-leaning folks will talk about how they're getting cancelled, while cancelling journalists.
China has history thats not allowed to be taught or learned from. In America, we just sweep it under an already lumpy rug.
- Genocide of Native americans in Florida and resulting "Manifest Destiny" genocide on aboriginals people - Slavery, and arguably the American South was entirely depedant on slave labour - Internment camp for Japanses families during the second world war - Students protesters shot and killed at Kent State by National Guards
Re: Qwen3-Max-Thinking
#283Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think what these people mean is that it's difficult to get them to be racist, sexist, antisemitic, transphobic, to deny climate change, etc. Still not even the same thing because Western models will happily talk about these things.
> to deny climate change This is a statement of facts, just like the Tiananmen Square example is a statement of fact. What is interesting in the Alibaba Cloud case is that the model output is filtered to remove certain facts. The people claiming some "both sides" equivalence, on the other hand, are trying to get a model to deny certain facts.
“We have facts, they have falsities”. I think the crux of the issue here is that facts don’t exist in reality, they are subjective by their very nature. So we have on one side those who understand this, and absolutists like yourself who believe facts are somehow unimpugnable and not subjective. Well, China has their own facts, you have yours, I have mine, and we can only arrive at a fact by curating experiential events. For example, a photograph is not fact, it is evidence of an event surely, but it can be manipulated or omit many things (it is a projection, visible light spectrum only, temporally biased, easily editable these days [even in Stalin’s days]), and I don’t want to speak for you but I’d wager you’d consider it as factual.
Re: Qwen3-Max-Thinking
#284Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why is this surprising? Isn't it mandatory for chinese companies to do adhere to the censorship? Aside from the political aspect of it, which makes it probably a bad knowledge model, how would this affect coding tasks for example? One could argue that Anthropic has similar "censorships" in place (alignment) that prevent their model from doing illegal stuff - where illegal is defined as something not legal (likely?) i…
here's an example of how model censorship affects coding tasks: https://github.com/orgs/community/discussions/72603
I can't believe I'm using Grok... but I'm using Grok...
Why? I have a female sales person, and I noticed they get a different response from (female) receptionists than my male sales people. I asked chatGPT about this, and it outright refused to believe me. It said I was imagining this and implied I was sexist or something. I ended up asking Grok, and it mentioned the phenomena and some solutions. It was genuinely helpful.
Further, I brought this up with some of my contract advisors, and one of my female advisors mentioned the phenomena before I gave a hypothesis. 'Girls are just like this.'
Now I use Grok... I can't believe I'm saying that. I just want right answers.
Re: Qwen3-Max-Thinking
#285Earlier quoted context omitted.
The 1989 Tiananmen Square protests and massacre is a matter of public record outside of China. There is first-hand evidence of it happening, and of the Chinese government censoring that fact in order to control their population. The Great Replacement theory is a racist hypothesis, with no evidence, used to justify the maiming and killing of Muslims. If you don't understand the difference, and the risk profiles, well,…
You can't find out what the truth is unless you're able to also discuss possible falsehoods in the first place. A truth-seeking model can trivially say: "okay, here's what a colorable argument for what you're talking about might look like, if you forced me to argue for that position. And now just look at the sheer amount of stuff I had to completely make up, just to make the argument kinda stick!" That's what intelle…
Your example is not what the prompts ask for though, and it's not even close to how LLMs can work.
Re: Qwen3-Max-Thinking
#286Earlier quoted context omitted.
One of the ways the chinese companies are keeping up is by training the models on the outputs of the American fronteir models. I'm not saying they don't innovate in other ways, but this is part of how they caught up quickly. However, it pretty much means they are always going to lag.
They are. There is no way to lead unless China has access to as much compute power.
They likely will lead in compute power in the medium term future, since they’re definitely the country with the highest energy generation capacity at this point. Now they just need to catch up on the hardware front, which I believe they’ve also made significant progress on over the last few years.
Re: Qwen3-Max-Thinking
#287One thing I’m becoming curious about with these models are the token counts to achieve these results - things like “better reasoning” and “more tool usage” aren’t “model improvements” in what I think would be understood as the colloquial sense, they’re techniques for using the model more to better steer the model, and are closer to “spend more to get more” than “get more for less.” They’re still valuable, but they op…
i'm no expert, and i actually asked google gemini a similar question yesterday - "how much more energy is consumed by running every query through Gemini AI versus traditional search?" turns out that the AI result is actually on par, if not more efficient (power wise) than traditional search. I think it said its the equivalent power of watching 5 seconds of TV per search. I also asked perplexity to give a report of th…
Conceptually, the training process is like building a massive and highly compressed index of all known results. You can't outright ignore the power usage to build this index, but at the very least once you have it, in theory traversing it could be more efficient than the competing indexes that power google search. Its a data structure that's perfectly tailored to semantic processing.
Though, once the LLM has to engage a hypothetical "google search" or "web search" tool to supplement its own internal knowledge; I think the efficiency obviously goes out the window. I suspect that Google is doing this every time you engage with Gemini on Search AI Mode.
Re: Qwen3-Max-Thinking
#288[flagged]
Why is this surprising? Isn't it mandatory for chinese companies to do adhere to the censorship? Aside from the political aspect of it, which makes it probably a bad knowledge model, how would this affect coding tasks for example? One could argue that Anthropic has similar "censorships" in place (alignment) that prevent their model from doing illegal stuff - where illegal is defined as something not legal (likely?) i…
There's a pretty huge difference between relatively generic stuff like "don't teach people how to make pipe bombs" or whatever vs "don't discuss topics that are politically sensitive specifically in ."
The equivalent here for the US would probably be models unwilling to talk about chattel slavery, or Japanese internment, or the Tuskegee Syphilis Study.
Re: Qwen3-Max-Thinking
#289Earlier quoted context omitted.
Difficult to blame them, considering censorship exists in the West too.
What prompt should I run to detect western censorship from a LLM?