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Proton spam and the AI consent problem

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Re: Proton spam and the AI consent problem

#281

Post by SCdF »

tzs wrote: post #273
SCdF wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree: in as much as I have noticed this *far* more with AI than any other advancement / fad (depending on your opinion) than anything else before. This also tracks with every app and website injecting AI into every one of your interactions, with no way to disable it. I think the article's point about non-consent is a very apt one, and expresses why I dislike this trend so much. I left Google Workspace, as a pay…

> I disagree: in as much as I have noticed this far more with AI than any other advancement / fad (depending on your opinion) than anything else before Isn't that because most of the other advancements/fads were not as widely applicable? With earlier things there was usually only particular kinds of sites or products where they would be useful. You'd still get some people trying to put them in places they made no sen…

> With AI, if well done, it would be useful nearly everywhere.

I fundamentally disagree with this.

I never, now or in the future, want to use AI to generate or alter communication or expression primarily between me and other humans.

I do not want emails or articles summarised, I do not emails or documents written for me, I do not want my photos altered yassified. Not now, not ever.

Re: Proton spam and the AI consent problem

#282

Post by expedition32 »

tzs wrote: post #273
SCdF wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree: in as much as I have noticed this *far* more with AI than any other advancement / fad (depending on your opinion) than anything else before. This also tracks with every app and website injecting AI into every one of your interactions, with no way to disable it. I think the article's point about non-consent is a very apt one, and expresses why I dislike this trend so much. I left Google Workspace, as a pay…

> I disagree: in as much as I have noticed this far more with AI than any other advancement / fad (depending on your opinion) than anything else before Isn't that because most of the other advancements/fads were not as widely applicable? With earlier things there was usually only particular kinds of sites or products where they would be useful. You'd still get some people trying to put them in places they made no sen…

This is a very strange argument. If AI was so bloody revolutionary than you didn't have to sneak it into your products without consent.

Very often AI seems to be a solution looking for a problem.

Re: Proton spam and the AI consent problem

#283

Post by MiddleEndian »

chrisjj wrote: post #158
nkrisc wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They go in the junk folder and then get marked and reported as spam.

Dangerous, since this invites genuine service emails to be junked.

I think that's fine. If 20% of the emails from some company (let's say Paypal) are spam, then all email providers (especially Gmail, the largest provider) should mark ALL of their emails as spam by default until they stop spending spam. If they want to keep spamming, they can at least humiliate themselves by telling people to check their spam folders for their emails.

Re: Proton spam and the AI consent problem

#285

Post by matheusmoreira »

vee-kay wrote: post #256
aprentic wrote: post #221

I really hope the Proton PMs are watching this. Their main business offerings are privacy and security. The fact that they were able to pull customers away from Google shows that switching costs are low. Your reputation is your moat. If you ruin it by acting like Google, you're filling your own moat.

[flagged]

"Government scrutiny" ? What a bunch of bullshit.

If anything this enhances Proton's reputation. If so called "terrorists and perverts" trust it to the point they rely on it for their own security, then it's worth serious consideration. Nobody wants to use cryptography that some indian government can subvert.

Re: Proton spam and the AI consent problem

#287

Post by blibble »

microtonal wrote: post #262
nomadiccoder wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fastmail is worth considering. Ive used it for several years and it just works.

Downside is that their main servers are in the US, which may be problematic these days if you are from outside the US. I just moved away from Fastmail after 10+ years for this reason.

as of this week, I've been going through the rigmarole of self-hosting my own email (again), for the same reason as you

any avoidable dependency on the US has become a red line

don't forget to tell fastmail that the reason you're leaving is because they host in the US!

(I also told them if they open a DC outside the reach of the US regime: I be happy to become a customer again)

Re: Proton spam and the AI consent problem

#288

Post by bigyabai »

vee-kay wrote: post #256
aprentic wrote: post #221

I really hope the Proton PMs are watching this. Their main business offerings are privacy and security. The fact that they were able to pull customers away from Google shows that switching costs are low. Your reputation is your moat. If you ruin it by acting like Google, you're filling your own moat.

[flagged]

> because it was found that terrorists and perverts were using it for terror communications and digital sexual abuse.

Lol, nondescript "terrorists and perverts" are the laughingstock of Western politics. Eyes roll whenever someone justifies drastic action on vague terrorism/perversion accusations: https://youtu.be/ud9zBKJJQe4

My bigger concern is Modi's international reputation for exacerbating crime statistics to manufacture consent for authoritarian policy. We've seen our fair share of that here in America and it's not a positive influence on national politics. So much so that we can't trust our own email providers to be secure.

Re: Proton spam and the AI consent problem

#289

Post by kelseyfrog »

arrozconcosas wrote: post #194
everyday7732 wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To add to this, it's the same attitude that they used to create the AI in the first place by using content which they don't own, without permission. Regardless of how useful it may be, the companies creating it and including it have demonstrated time and again that they do not care about consent.

How can you get a machine to have values? Humans have values because of social dynamics and education (or lack of exposure to other types of education). Computers do not have social dynamics, and it is much harder to control what they are being educated on if the answer is "everything".

> How can you get a machine to have values?

The short answer is a reward function. The long answer is the alignment problem.

Of course, everything in the middle is what matters. Explicitly defined reward functions are complete, but not consistent. Data defined rewards are potentially consistent but incomplete. It's not a solvable problem form machines but equally likewise for humans. Still we practice, improve and middle through dispite this and approximate improvement hopefully, over long enough timescales.

Re: Proton spam and the AI consent problem

#290

Post by homebrewer »

SCdF wrote: post #281
tzs wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I disagree: in as much as I have noticed this far more with AI than any other advancement / fad (depending on your opinion) than anything else before Isn't that because most of the other advancements/fads were not as widely applicable? With earlier things there was usually only particular kinds of sites or products where they would be useful. You'd still get some people trying to put them in places they made no sen…

> With AI, if well done, it would be useful nearly everywhere. I fundamentally disagree with this. I never, now or in the future, want to use AI to generate or alter communication or expression primarily between me and other humans. I do not want emails or articles summarised, I do not emails or documents written for me, I do not want my photos altered yassified. Not now, not ever.

How about machine translation and fixing grammar in languages you're not very familiar with? That's the only use of "AI" I've found so far. I'd rather read (and write) broken English in informal contexts like this forum, but there are enough more formal situations.
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