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I'm addicted to being useful

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Re: I'm addicted to being useful

#281

Post by rendx »

danielmarkbruce wrote: post #264
lcnPylGDnU4H9OF wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That said, I think your definition highlights the problem: By telling someone it's okay to feel the emotion, you've implicitly endorsed the response. This tells me that you've not understood my meaning. One is not condoning or endorsing any behavioral response when they say the emotional response (which motivated the behavior) is valid and natural. They are distinct things and one does not necessarily follow or pre…

>> emotional response (which motivated the behavior) is valid and natural. This is obviously nonsense. If an old woman falls over and breaks her knee, and one's emotional response is happiness - they have real problems - it's not natural or valid to feel that. If the idea of choking women to death makes one feel excited - no it's not natural or valid to feel that emotion, they have serious problems. One could go on.…

> they have serious problems

Or they are practicing buddhists. Or victims of trauma. The former doesn't need (but won't mind) validation, the latter does.

Re: I'm addicted to being useful

#282

Post by danielmarkbruce »

lcnPylGDnU4H9OF wrote: post #276
danielmarkbruce wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> emotional response (which motivated the behavior) is valid and natural. This is obviously nonsense. If an old woman falls over and breaks her knee, and one's emotional response is happiness - they have real problems - it's not natural or valid to feel that. If the idea of choking women to death makes one feel excited - no it's not natural or valid to feel that emotion, they have serious problems. One could go on.…

I guess I should make explicit my general assumption that we are not talking about psychopaths given the overwhelming odds that a given individual is not a psychopath. That said... > If the idea of choking women to death makes one feel excited - no it's not natural or valid to feel that emotion, they have serious problems. I disagree. That is surely a natural and valid emotional response for whatever reason this hypo…

You keep talking in circles around a definition of valid.

You are just wrong on this. You want to seem sophisticated and understanding, and it's just lazy stupid thinking.

Re: I'm addicted to being useful

#283

Post by rendx »

bflesch wrote: post #52
TeMPOraL wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The challenge is, some people (most) get stuck on some emotional thing, and will drain you dry if you try to even engage with them on it. It’s especially prevalent right now. Yup. I've long learned to suppress my problem-solver nature because "people want to be heard", but then what it gets is turning me into a sounding board for people who get stuck on something indefinitely. It's easy to not jump in with solution…

I call that "you are the garbage bin for other people's emotions". And once you realize this process you can't unsee it and re-evaluate some relationships. If it is each side taking turns being the "emotional garbage bin" then it's a healthy relationship. But if people only reach out to drop their toxic waste and leave you without the chance to get rid of your own toxic waste you feel not good afterwards. Like where…

You're finding comforting explanations to allow you to act dismissively towards other people. I understand this is a strategy that is popular these days, but maybe consider how another fellow human will feel when you "don't give them a reason why you stop interacting, you just leave", and judge what they tell you as "toxic waste"; and how you might be the one to make it worse for them (and yourself). If you mentalize yourself into the other position, yours might appear arrogant and condecending if not psychologically violent from where you stand ("how's your aura looking?").

If you feel worn out after listening to other people, that's one way to avoid that, at the expense of human connection. There are other ways to not feel drained even after listening to the most horrible (or boring) stories that don't cut people (and thus yourself) off. You gain options, not lose any. You can learn to have more control over your own inner state without effort, and become more independent from what people around you are saying or doing, instead of turning your problem into their wrongdoing. Instead of having your world suddenly be full of energy vampires you need to protect yourself from.

Re: I'm addicted to being useful

#284

Post by n4r9 »

Aurornis wrote: post #239
embedding-shape wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nobody actually says "I agree that you are feeling that emotion but I neither endorse it nor disagree with it" (in less formal wording). If you're going along with someone else's emotions, you're implicitly endorsing their reaction as justified. Yes, actually, lots of people have healthy partnerships where they disagree with how their partner got into the situation, but can still recognize that the partner's feelin…

> since it's an emotion their feeling, it doesn't have to be rational or logical and it's certainly not up to you to decide if it is/was neither. I think some of you have never had to deal with a person who had harmful emotional over reactions to even small inconveniences. It's an extremely self-harmful spiral. Having someone who validates any emotions as if they exist in a vacuum is like adding fuel to the fire. It'…

> Working with young children is another good way to observe that not every emotional reaction is acceptable.

I have a two year old son and disagree with this. I wonder if you're using the phrase "overreaction" to mean both the emotion and the associated behaviour? I make sure to demonstrate that my son's emotions - sadness, anger, happiness - are always "acceptable" in the sense that it's okay for him to have those feelings. I never want him to feel like his feelings are not accepted, because that can easily leads to him hiding, avoiding, or suppressing feelings rather than acknowledging and learning how to process and regulate them. This is what basically all modern parenting books say and has accorded with my experience so far. But his behaviour can be unacceptable. It's okay for him to feel angry, but it is not ok for him to respond to that by hitting, biting, snatching etc. He needs me to help label and contextualise his feelings, and to show him how to divert those feelings into a healthier physical response.

Re: I'm addicted to being useful

#285

Post by kinjba11 »

This reminds me of the "three tribes of programming: mathematical poetry, machine hackery, and business value". I think each SWE gets similar but different feelings of satisfaction. I knew a coworker who cared about the result, and little about the code he wrote. This was foreign to me when I saw it, as I was and still am definitely in the love for "math poetry" camp when it's possible.

https://josephg.com/blog/3-tribes/

Re: I'm addicted to being useful

#286

Post by 47282847 »

Aurornis wrote: post #235
relaxer wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Validate her emotions, offer comfort, not question the validity of responding that way. IDK if anything here counts as a good container for emotion. 'validate' is very ambiguous. 'comfort' is very different from presence. It can actually be a way of invalidating funnily enough. 'not question' has a lot going on. I definitely hear a lot of enablement in your example. It sounds like she is better off without that. >…

I've clearly struck a nerve with how many people arrived in this comment thread to project different scenarios on to the situation, as well as all the different and conflicting definitions of "validate emotions" To be honest, I'm growing even more distaste for the "validating emotions" academic concept after reading some of the mental gymnastics people are doing in this thread.

You wrote

> validated her emotions and reactions

But in other instances in this thread I am not so sure each time you mention her emotions you are talking about her feelings, distinct from her actions or interpretations. There is a difference between anger (the emotion), aggression (waving hands, loud voice etc), and physical contact (undirected against objects, directed at objects, against self, against others). Maybe you are “striking nerves” since it’s not always clear which one you are referring to in terms of her “validation”. And these distinctions are not academic.

Re: I'm addicted to being useful

#287

Post by hackable_sand »

giglamesh wrote: post #230
hackable_sand wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For a more spiritual audience: the analogy is also widely recognized in the Bible

Yeah there are some similar suggestions but all the examples I can think of are at least a bit of a stretch. Matthew 7:3–5 mebbe? Remove the log from your own eye before focusing on smaller chunks of wood in the eyes of others?

My cup runneth over.

Re: I'm addicted to being useful

#288

Post by hackable_sand »

pjmorris wrote: post #203
hackable_sand wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For a more spiritual audience: the analogy is also widely recognized in the Bible

I spend a lot of time reading the Bible, and examples aren't coming to mind. Can you give some examples?

My cup runneth over.

Re: I'm addicted to being useful

#289

Post by hackable_sand »

wrsh07 wrote: post #64
hackable_sand wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For a more spiritual audience: the analogy is also widely recognized in the Bible

For what it's worth, I wanted to downvote this because it doesn't provide much additional context. Which verses? Is there a link? (I didn't downvote) Saying "oh yeah the bible mentions that" doesn't really add to a conversation - the bible mentions a lot of stuff! However, if I downvote you because you didn't provide context, you might misinterpret it as "wow, hacker news hates the bible" (I have no opinion on hn aud…

The Tao Te Ching also says a lot of things. You should look there.

Re: I'm addicted to being useful

#290

Post by hackable_sand »

WalterBright wrote: post #252
pclalv wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have similar reservations that this expresses, and it leaves me wondering as to what kind of person is suited for this kind of environment. Perhaps that's a pointless question, although I think that there is at least one useful answer to it: I'm not the kind of person who's suited to those environment. I'm not well-suited to take such a huge chunk of my life and basically throwing it away by creating a barrier betw…

Throughout the vast arc of human existence, you worked or you died. Nature does not hand you food, shelter, clothing, and flush toilets for free. Most of us, if dropped naked into the wilderness, will die within 24 hours. Bone evidence from colonial America is the colonists worked like dogs and died young. Bone evidence from the Indians showed repeated famines.

Yeah it's really not that serious
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