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Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

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Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#281

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I keep seeing "underequipped technologically relative to their Chinese peers" on HN. What kind of stuff is missing? This is not a loaded question, I only drive a couple times a month, and the vehicle I'm driving is an older Prius, so I probably lack imagination. EVs are supposed to be technologically pretty simple, most of an EV's value being in the battery packs. I've been thinking about upgrading, perhaps to a Niss…

See this MKBHD video for an idea of features in Chinese EVs. https://youtu.be/Mb6H7trzMfI

This is a car that is more expensive than a Tesla Model 3 in the Chinese market, with more or less the same features.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#282
post #134

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Yeah, such a weird comment. A 911 Turbo S is over $300k now. This car used to be low 200s for a well optioned one. They're taking some kind of Nvidia strategy where they just charge more money for the new generation rather than making the new generation just objectively better than the previous for the same cost. The new GTS basically is a replacement for the old 911 Turbo - and at the same cost... I was considering…

> where they just charge more money for the new generation rather than making the new generation just objectively better than the previous for the same cost. Well, the new T-hybrid thing is really cool. But I'm not someone who spends $100k+ on a car.

T-hybrid is cool, yes. Ironically the first electric turbocharger hitting the streets just when Formula I is banning them..

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#283
post #221

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It's a good point but imo not really surprising when the President of the United States essentially threatened to invade Canada and Greenland. This is classic multipolar politics, trade the two behemoths against each other so they don't roll over one day and just squish you. By alienating Canada and Europe we've handed China a great gift.

It's only getting started. Do you think Europe is going to use American networking equipment when America has shown that it will use its military against Europe? American grid technology?

And what about all those huge pending orders for F35 in ... Denmark and Canada? Etc.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#284

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Consumers don't realize they are getting the worst of both worlds with added weight, complexity, repairs, inefficiency, and costs along with potential reliability (ex-Toyota) Not to mention studies that show PHEV owners frequently don't plug in.

Nah, PHEVs are the perfect compromise for lots of people who wouldn't otherwise be able to go all electric. Don't let perfect be the enemy of good.

Indeed. I cannot charge my car at home so I drive a PHEV. I use public chargers when one is available on my street. If not, no problem. I’d say about 80% of my daily driving is done on the battery, which is a lot better than 0!

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#285
post #206

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> Then I think you see an early indication not just of electric car dominance, but of the (very potential) rise of China as the premier automotive super power. It’s done man. Americans are stuck in ICE engines because they’ve been told they’re “car enthusiasts” while the Chinese have been developing EV technology for years. Meanwhile, European makers are stuck not knowing what to do, make Americans happy or compete w…

Yes, not to mention the fact that Chinese EVs can't be sold here... protectionism for weak American companies that can't compete globally. We've gone from an automotive superpower and the land of Henry Ford to the government propping up automakers and depriving Americans of free choice. If Chinese cars would actually be allowed to sold here they would sell like Toyota Camrys.

Protecting automakers can be considered a vital business for national security. This is not good for consumers, but relying on China for everything also carries many risks.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#286

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no OP, but as someone who comes from a family where German cars were king for several reasons, who have all become disillusioned and now buy Asian cars, where the reason is simple. American style corporate greed infested German auto-manufactures and it shows at every level. It is most obvious with things like subscription services for basic function, like acceleration or the seat heaters you already paid for, but it…

I haven't bought German ever, but everything I hear seems pretty negative. Some of the recent models have plastic timing chain guides and have turned the engine around so that the timing chains are in the back. The only innocent explanation is that the car is only meant to last 10 years at most, so saving the money on plastic instead of metal and screwing whoever owns the car when the timing chains need to be redone…

> There were many older models of BMW that had an electric water pump. If that sounds silly, well, it is. And it failed frequently and was again, very difficult to replace.

On the face of it, it's not actually a bad idea. The electric pump can run at an optimal speed regardless of engine rpm. This means the pump can be downsized, because otherwise if it's driven directly from the engine it'd have to be sized for the worst case scenario of low rpm and high load.

Same reason why many vehicles nowadays have electric radiator fans rather than driven directly from the crankshaft like in the "good ol' days". (Of course with transverse mounted engines a crankshaft driven fan doesn't really work either, so that's another big reason to go for an electric fan.)

Now, of course this concept can be badly implemented, just like any other part of the design.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#287

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> but China is more protectionist than any other major economy, including recent changes in US policy. Not true. China let Tesla set up shop in the backyard of their domestic EV industry, WITHOUT the mandatory by law 51% Chinese ownership, precisely so Tesla would light a fire under the asses of domestic players, forcing them to compete better with what was at the time, the pinnacle EV brand. China is no longer beati…

Why not both. Protectionism that works to bolster inovation. TSMC didn't become the world's supreme chipmaker by a laissez-faire aproach from Taiwan. Same applies to Samsung. And oh-so-many Japanese tech ventures. And all of them were a product of American geopolitics and tech collaboration. Let's not pretend high tech was ever not a result of government-assisted efforts, subsidies, tarrifs, export controls, and geop…

>TSMC didn't become the world's supreme chipmaker by a laissez-faire aproach from Taiwan.

>Same applies to Samsung. And oh-so-many Japanese tech ventures.

You're missing a lot of context with these analogies. TSMC and Samsung started off in the 1950-1980s as cheap manufacturers of low margin electronic commodities the west was actively trying to get rid of in the name of protecting the environment(semi industry is poisonous) and increasing shareholder value via cheap(cough, slave, cough) labour, while giving western consumers who had options of better paid jobs access to cheaper imported stuff. It was a win-win-win situation, kind-of.

But fast forward to today, now that TSMC and Samsung have become masters of cutting edge high margin manufacturing, and the west finds itself exposed to lack of said cutting edge manufacturing at home, they're starting to twist their arms to get the know-how and infrastructure that they missed out on back on-shore. Had the west know the table would turn like this they probably would have acted differently.

Same with cars. German OEMs like Mercedes that were the pinnacle of auto tech especially when it came to tings like safety and self driving/crash avoidance, but got greedy and were more than happy to outsource electronics and ECU development and manufacturing to the lowest bidder in the name of shareholder value, but over time they lost vertical integration and access to inhouse critical high end technologies that made them valuable over the competition. Now China used that outsourced electronics industry to develop its own electronic auto tech and its vertical integration supply chain to beat the Germans.

The highest margin item in an ICE car was always the engine at which the Germans were the best at, and China could not catch up. Fast forward to today, in an EV, the highest margin items are the battery, self driving stack and supporting AI silicon, almost none of which come from Europe, meaning German OEMs are losing out on innovations and profits big time, becoming only system integrators of US and Chinese sourced parts on top of which they slap a badge hoping the consumers will value it more than Chinese badges because "heritage and tradition". They are super fucked.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#288
post #77

I just buy japanese cars/vehicles these days. With that being said a lot of them are manufactured stateside - especially larger vehicles. I had a Mitsu I was very happy with. I've also purchased Hyundai made in Korea and it is wonderful but not much better that what was built in Iowa.

Buying an ICE vehicle in 2026 is like...buying a video cassette player when DVD players were already coming out?

No, there are many good, valid reasons to own an ICE vehicle.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#289
post #195

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China's 2025 numbers are out: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_motor_veh... They're up roughly 10% over last year and will likely hit 35% of global production. The big shift over the last decade (beyond their growing market share) is that their overall quality has caught up to (and in many cases surpassed) the traditional incumbents. Barring a global war, I think they're unstoppable at this point.

I remember when Japan was supposed to take over the world in the '80s, to the point that "back to the future 2" had Americans speaking Japanese to their managers. Toyota did become the dominant producer, but American and European car makers (and now Koreans and Chinese) are still around. I wouldn't bet on total domination from China anytime soon.

And funny thing, all three countries car industries were started by the USA.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#290
The US/EU/JP manufacturers are half-pregnant, they have engine and other mechanical production plants that will become stranded assets as BEVs don't need engines, gearboxes or the other hydraulic/cooling etc infrastructure that an ICE vehicle needs.

Electric motors are essentially maintenance free over the life of a BEV, same for the batteries. The maintenance is for brake pads/rotors, but regen braking also avoids that.

There is the passenger heat pumps for heat/cooling, and the lighting, but LED lighting also requires minimal maintenance.

That cuts out a large chunk of the automotive industry in general.

US/EU/JP manufacturers are having to handle a major market disruption, independent of whether or not CN is leaping over them.

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