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‘ELITE’: The Palantir app ICE uses to find neighborhoods to raid

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Re: ‘ELITE’: The Palantir app ICE uses to find neighborhoods to raid

#281
post #222

[flagged]

I have a friend whose parents were just (incorrectly) detained by ICE, and had to pay a $3000 administrative fee to be released. That _is_ the extremism. It's here.

Sure, that's extremism. That has nothing to do with ICE using software to identify illegal migrants. The argument in the article was not that the software often gets it wrong, but that -- even if it were right -- something would be wrong with it.

Re: ‘ELITE’: The Palantir app ICE uses to find neighborhoods to raid

#282

[flagged]

> the idea of deporting people who have no legal status in this country is immediately branded Nazi It's not just that idea though. Plenty of presidents have done that without pushback. It's that idea combined with: * Rhetoric dehumanizing the immigrants * Raiding churches, courts, jobs, etc * Revoking legal status of immigrants * Reducing training time for new hires * Detaining U.S. citizens and threatening them * S…

I can agree with (1) and (5).

(2) -- why can't you raid a church? A church is not a special place. America is not a theocracy which gives sacrosanct respect to some portions of land.

(3) The US has every right to revoke legal status with no other reason than it doesn't make sense for the United States. We can talk about how it's done, but that's rarely the issue at hand in these debates.

(4) Not sure what this means

(6) Politicians say incorrect things all the time to appeal to their base.

Re: ‘ELITE’: The Palantir app ICE uses to find neighborhoods to raid

#283
post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty sure GP is saying that the data Palantir sells are commercial because they're being sold by Palantir.

Right, and what I’m saying is that to the best of my knowledge, Palantir don’t sell data at all, which is the fundamental misunderstanding people seem to have about them.

They sell data derived from the data. But it's not, like, a hash function - you can absolutely deduce the source data from it. In fact, that's the entire purpose. You use the aggregation and whatnot bullshit to find individuals, track them, gain insight into their living situation and patterns, and acquire evidence of crimes. Typically that requires a search warrant.

If you couldn't go backwards Palantir wouldn't have a market. So, I would consider that a loophole.

Re: ‘ELITE’: The Palantir app ICE uses to find neighborhoods to raid

#284

[flagged]

Even trying to follow the existing law is punishable by exile without trial. You can go to all your legally appointed court dates, follow every rule in the book, and get snatched and deported from the courtroom the next minute.

If you are in this country illegally to begin with, then yes, going to court and following procedure will still result in deportation and a permanent ban on entry. While following the post-crime procedure is indeed laudable, the prescribed punishment for flaunting the immigration laws of the US is being barred from entry.

Re: ‘ELITE’: The Palantir app ICE uses to find neighborhoods to raid

#285

I’ve never worked at Palantir, but once you get past the noisy leadership’s villain virtue signaling, every report I’ve read about the platform itself gives me strong “typical enterprise vendor” vibes. A lackluster software offering that is overhyped to institutional purchasers, then shoved down frontline employees’ throats because the vendor is good at navigating the sales and compliance labyrinth to secure deals. T…

I do not agree at all. The problem is both Palantir AND their customers. You have a choise not to make the tools and you have a chiose not to use the tools.

Totally. Responsability is not, in general, mutually exclusive. When it happens to be, that's an organisational convenience, not a moral law.

Re: ‘ELITE’: The Palantir app ICE uses to find neighborhoods to raid

#286

I’ve never worked at Palantir, but once you get past the noisy leadership’s villain virtue signaling, every report I’ve read about the platform itself gives me strong “typical enterprise vendor” vibes. A lackluster software offering that is overhyped to institutional purchasers, then shoved down frontline employees’ throats because the vendor is good at navigating the sales and compliance labyrinth to secure deals. T…

the thing about supervillains is that you expect technical seriousness but thats just Hollywood not showing that psychopaths and narcissists are lazy and sell BS

Re: ‘ELITE’: The Palantir app ICE uses to find neighborhoods to raid

#287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Trump has been the only one that the corporations couldn't buy Hasn't he accepted donations from many mega corporations? My assumption is that a corporation wont donate money, without the expectation of ROI.

OP has the delusion that being rich means you are resistant to corruption by being less likely to pursue riches. That being rich causes one to stop pursuing it.

Form what I've seen in life it's the exact opposite - the most greedy are the richest. The only people who have the seemingly unreasonable desire for infinite wealth are the already wealthy. For most everyday people, there is a cutoff amount.

Re: ‘ELITE’: The Palantir app ICE uses to find neighborhoods to raid

#288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not what's happening. There wouldn't be the backlash if they were primarily deporting "the worst of the worst", as they promised, using due process. Instead they're targeting everyone, including people here legally and in many cases U.S. citizens, without due process, in the cruelest and most over-the-top way possible.

Ignore the worst of the worst framing. Even a person who is unobjectionable but who is in the country without legal authorization is fine to be deported. I'm not going to pearl clutch over it. Estimates say that up 3-5% of the entire american population has no legal right to be in this country. I'm not a perfectionist. A few 100,000 would be totally reasonable to say 'good enough' at. But multiple millions? Not reall…

It's both the fact that they're going after people here legally and even U.S. citizens, and the brutality and unconstitutional nature of their tactics. They are literally going house to house kicking in doors without a warrant. They're racial profiling. The ICE agents are completely out of control as their recruitment standards are nonexistent and higher-ups are signaling that they can do literally whatever they want, including killing people, and they'll face no consequences. I don't understand how any sane person can support it, much less the "don't tread on me" crowd.

Detaining and/or deporting people here illegally to their home countries with due process: OK

Detaining, deporting, and/or killing people here illegally, legally, and U.S. citizens, without due process, to private detention camps or third countries: NOT OK

Re: ‘ELITE’: The Palantir app ICE uses to find neighborhoods to raid

#289
post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, and what I’m saying is that to the best of my knowledge, Palantir don’t sell data at all, which is the fundamental misunderstanding people seem to have about them.

They sell data derived from the data. But it's not, like, a hash function - you can absolutely deduce the source data from it. In fact, that's the entire purpose. You use the aggregation and whatnot bullshit to find individuals, track them, gain insight into their living situation and patterns, and acquire evidence of crimes. Typically that requires a search warrant. If you couldn't go backwards Palantir wouldn't hav…

> They sell data derived from the data.

Do they? I don't think they even do this, either.

I have really strong knowledge of this from ~10 years ago and weak knowledge from more recently. I'm happy to be proven wrong but my understanding is that they don't sell any data at all, but rather just consulting services for processing data someone already has.

One of those consulting services is probably recommending vendors to supply more data, but as far as I know Palantir literally do not have a first-party data warehouse at all.

Re: ‘ELITE’: The Palantir app ICE uses to find neighborhoods to raid

#290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Number of immigrants has been slowly increasing or steady for decades. It's a fantasy that it's a crisis or that there is a risk of tens of millions flooding our shores. We mostly drastically benefit from products downstream from cheap labor while tacitly allowing those who don't get in trouble so we can continue to benefit from this. We could have "solved" immigration decades ago with enough punative treatment of em…

Ah yes, the "fantasy" of housing price inflation and wage depression.

The fantasy is that's it's caused by migrants and going to be fixed by deporting them.
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