It would be cool if researchers weren't so easily bought. I thought the sciences attracted people of strong moral character but it would appear not.
Sugar industry influenced researchers and blamed fat for CVD (2016)
281–290 of 537 posts
Re: Sugar industry influenced researchers and blamed fat for CVD (2016)
#282Earlier quoted context omitted.
> This is the sort of misdirection that requires the follow up question "what is real food?". For RFK that includes a roadkill bear. What is wrong with roadkill bear? Genuinely asking.
If it died due to disease that's one, rabies and any prion diseases would be easy to accidentally transfer due to mistakes in handling. Parasites. Mites and fleas which also can harbor disease. Uncertain length of decomposition. Possibly died due to poison, either intentionally or unintentionally which can the poison the eater.
While the mental image of eating roadkill is also unappetizing to me, I have to admit my reaction here is irrational.
Eating roadkill isn’t much different from eating wild game you hunted — except with roadkill, it was someone else and their car that killed it accidentally, rather you and a gun intentionally.
Re: Sugar industry influenced researchers and blamed fat for CVD (2016)
#283Earlier quoted context omitted.
But there is also the fallacy where some people want you to believe basically everything will cause CVD and there is no single thing you could do to change it, so therefore just keep doing whatever you’re doing.
I call this the "Everything in Moderation" fallacy. From what I've heard people who say it, they emphasize the everything part of it. In other words almost everything is bad for you so just eat a little bit of everything and you won't get too much of the bad stuff. It's maddening.
I don’t think “Everything in Moderation” means you won’t get too much of the bad stuff. The philosophy alludes to the fact that in the modern world, trying to have the ideal diet is exhausting and near impossible. Lack of choice, money, time, education, self control etc. all contribute to you intentionally or unintentionally eating stuff that’s going to do irreparable harm to you. You could be eating salads and somehow poisoning yourself with pesticides and high sugar/fat/sodium salad dressings. Which is why this philosophy focuses on, do everything in moderation and you’ll maybe avoid CVD and other diseases for longer. It is meant for people who cannot meet the idealistic standards of what you are supposed to do.
Re: Sugar industry influenced researchers and blamed fat for CVD (2016)
#284Earlier quoted context omitted.
You’re exactly right: This one incident did not shape the entire body of scientific research. There is a common trick used in contrarian argumentation where a single flaw is used to “debunk” an entire side of the debate. The next step, often implied rather than explicit, is to push the reader into assuming that the opposite position must therefore be the correct one. They don’t want you to apply the same level of rig…
But there is also the fallacy where some people want you to believe basically everything will cause CVD and there is no single thing you could do to change it, so therefore just keep doing whatever you’re doing.
Even if you can’t change the inevitability of CVD, what you do will absolutely change WHEN you get it.
Re: Sugar industry influenced researchers and blamed fat for CVD (2016)
#285The new dietary guidelines are much more sensible IMO, compared to the food pyramid or MyPlate. https://cdn.realfood.gov/DGA.pdf
The scientific report is much more detailed: https://cdn.realfood.gov/Scientific%20Report.pdf I agree with siblings that nothing jumps out (to my non-expert eye) as "very extreme". EDIT: Removed long-winded snark after a more careful reading of the linked document.
I don't see anything extreme, but the primacy of proteins (and especially meat-based protein) and dairy seem suspicious considering the broader rhetoric coming out.
Re: Sugar industry influenced researchers and blamed fat for CVD (2016)
#286One very minor side (art?) project I am doing: https://kozubik.com/items/ThisisCandy/ … is a pushback of sorts on the sugar industry.
If I were to design a warning label I would take inspiration from the Australian tobacco warning labels, quite gruesome medical imagery of rotted teeth. Restricting the form of advertisement would be a start, like USA tobacco regulations.
Re: Sugar industry influenced researchers and blamed fat for CVD (2016)
#287This meme is very healthy among MAHA, and Secretary Kennedy is overseeing an overhaul of the Dietary Guidelines, recasting saturated fat as a health food. There is a lot of speculation that we will soon see a new food pyramid that is an inverted version of the last one. https://www.npr.org/sections/shots-health-news/2025/10/08/nx... I wonder if it will keep flipping as administrations change. Edit: The new guidelines…
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Re: Sugar industry influenced researchers and blamed fat for CVD (2016)
#288When this news first came out it was mind blowing, but at the same time I don't entirely get it. So the money quote seems to be: > The literature review heavily criticized studies linking sucrose to heart disease, while ignoring limitations of studies investigating dietary fats. They paid a total of 2 people $50,000 (edit: in 2016 dollars). That doesn't seem like enough to entirely shape worldwide discourse around nu…
You’re exactly right: This one incident did not shape the entire body of scientific research. There is a common trick used in contrarian argumentation where a single flaw is used to “debunk” an entire side of the debate. The next step, often implied rather than explicit, is to push the reader into assuming that the opposite position must therefore be the correct one. They don’t want you to apply the same level of rig…
I think common sense here can be a guide though. You don't need sugar at all, excluding high levels of anaerobic exercise. Your liver can produce the glucose your body actually needs from other sources (gluconeogenesis) and a lot of your tissues that use glucose also can use fatty acids or ketones. Fructose isn't needed at all. ("low blood sugar" isn't a symptom of not consuming enough sugar, it's a symptom of a disregulated metabolism -- ie insulin resistance or other conditions)
Saturated fats have all sorts of uses biologically.
Re: Sugar industry influenced researchers and blamed fat for CVD (2016)
#289Aren't both sugar and saturated fat problemtic, and complementary in contributing to CVD?
High-fat high-carb diet certainly is. There is however no conclusive data that high-fat low-carb diet OR low-fat high-carb diet contribute to CVD.
I wonder if this is because it has less to do with fat and carbs and more to do with processed foods.
The Mediterranean diet is regarded as quite healthy by many health professionals but, it is also high in carbs and fat. But these are healthy, unprocessed carbs and fats. Whole grains and olive oil.
People going for high fat, low carb / low fat, high carb are usually doing so while also sticking to real foods.
Re: Sugar industry influenced researchers and blamed fat for CVD (2016)
#290Earlier quoted context omitted.
I call this the "Everything in Moderation" fallacy. From what I've heard people who say it, they emphasize the everything part of it. In other words almost everything is bad for you so just eat a little bit of everything and you won't get too much of the bad stuff. It's maddening.
I don’t think “Everything in Moderation” means you won’t get too much of the bad stuff. The philosophy alludes to the fact that in the modern world, trying to have the ideal diet is exhausting and near impossible. Lack of choice, money, time, education, self control etc. all contribute to you intentionally or unintentionally eating stuff that’s going to do irreparable harm to you. You could be eating salads and someh…
Is it really that exhausting though? I've been on a zero-carb diet for two months (other than thanksgiving or christmas), and it really hasn't been hard at all. If I eat at a restaurant there's some things I can't avoid (seed oils), but otherwise it's not too hard to look at a menu and see things I can eat. The only hard part is to be optimally healthy I need to cook for myself, but that's always been true.
In a lot of ways, it's actually been easier. Because my blood sugar isn't crashing every few hours, I can easily skip a meal and feel perfectly fine. Fasting is very easy for me now, which it wasn't at all on an unhealthy diet.