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Resistance training load does not determine hypertrophy

physoc.onlinelibrary.wiley.com

281–290 of 371 posts

Re: Resistance training load does not determine hypertrophy

#281
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Loads for each set were adjusted to ensure that volitional fatigue was reached within 8–12 and 20–25 repetitions for the HL and LL limbs, respectively I would argue both categories of the study are about low reps. I don't see how the body would tell the difference between 12 and 25 reps. If you said between 5 and 500, like it has to meaningfully take much longer, otherwise why would doing something so similar have…

I feel like I would definitely notice if I went from 12 to 25 reps on any exercise I do. Although typically I max out at 8 before adding more weight.

Of course you would personally notice. But the parent was talking about the effect on muscles. And it has been long estsblished that 5-30 reps (perhaps even highter) will cause the same hypertrophy.

Obviously, for practical reasons the optimal range for each exercise will vary. For squat 5-10 is definitely better than 10-20 let alone 20-30. For DB side raises highter reps would feel better than the lower rep range.

Re: Resistance training load does not determine hypertrophy

#282

Why is this article showing up on New Year's Day like the flock of newbie gym customers attracted to the gym only to quit 30 days from now? Every year without fail. Let's ignore this article for a moment. Overall factors that REALLY matter building muscle: 1. Consistency - Working out each muscle group at least once a week....every week. 2. Diet - Making sure you are consuming enough protein in your diet, approximate…

All this advice is mostly harmless and not contraindicated, though some of it is incorrect, but point 5 in regards to soreness is harmful advice. Soreness is not a goal and does not indicate anything other than that you did a lot of eccentric lifting to which you were not recently adapted. Soreness means you waited longer than what was necessary to exercise that muscle group again. If you are getting sore beyond the first few workouts, it is a sign that your programming is suboptimal.

Progress is the weight on the bar increasing. Progress is not you being sore. Excess soreness is counterproductive during training, and should only be sought after if you are exercising as a penance for sins instead of training for some goal.

For more information read "Practical Programming for Strength Training".

Re: Resistance training load does not determine hypertrophy

#283
post #196

Why is this article showing up on New Year's Day like the flock of newbie gym customers attracted to the gym only to quit 30 days from now? Every year without fail. Let's ignore this article for a moment. Overall factors that REALLY matter building muscle: 1. Consistency - Working out each muscle group at least once a week....every week. 2. Diet - Making sure you are consuming enough protein in your diet, approximate…

"approximately 1gram/pound of body weight" I believe this should be lean mass, not total mass. I think people tried to calibrate this metric since most people don't have scales that can measure composition... but if you're obese, you're going to be consuming more than you need to, which is counter productive if you're obese.

https://mennohenselmans.com/the-myth-of-1glb-optimal-protein...

Yep it’s the most broscience myth that simply won’t go away.

Re: Resistance training load does not determine hypertrophy

#284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My max used to be 425 on deadlift back when I was taking it more seriously. Doing 5x8 of 225 on deadlift is enough to be strong to be healthy and active. You can only push yourself on a limited number of things in life so some things are just good enough.

Sure, and 400 deadlift is decent intermediate for the average man, but let me suggest a counterpoint. Strength is the greatest indication of health among the elderly. A strong old man doesn't break his hip when he falls, he doesn't fall at all actually because strength is balance, and he doesn't have trouble getting off the toilet, and he doesn't need a cane. These are serious QOL issues. It's a mindset issue. If you…

I’ve been a longtime competitive athlete and my best deadlift was 545 lb. I’ve been in many gyms in my life and I’ve only met maybe a dozen men lifting more than say 350 or so.

Expecting the “average” man to get to a 400 or even 300 lb deadlift is absurd. Sure, most people could be in better shape but a 4 plate deadlift is much more strength than most people need… and more than most people’s bodies can safely handle regularly. The risk of serious injury rises exponentially when you put on weight like that.

Building and maintaining strength, especially into the older ages, is certainly important but not to the levels you describe here. I suspect your comments here are based on neither personal experience nor proper education and training.

Re: Resistance training load does not determine hypertrophy

#285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You won't see any progress if you won't push yourself. It shapes your mentality, and running away from work is what will keep you at the same place. Soreness is not a sign of progression most of the time. Bump up the weights, don't run away.

I got to 425 max on deadlift. My ego isn’t tied to being stronger, just strong enough to be healthy and fit. I think it’s unhealthy to view this as “running away” and honestly I look good and by putting less focus on it, I have more focus for other things in life I can optimize.

But you are putting focus on it, just doing it less efficiently (imo and what other people say as well). Why not use the same time and use it more efficiently.

"I will go to the gym, but will not even break sweat, will be fakingly training, just jumping from one machine to another, without plan, execution or dedication" - is the MO of a lot of people in a commercial gym. They are there, but they are definitely running away from hardness. Don't know how well this applies to you.

In life, you need to run to keep the same place. In order to advance, one has to sprint, to put effort. Purposefully slacking and easing often means that practically you are regressing, being left behind.

I understand if you were strong enough, put effort, got the results, and want to scale training down in order to maintain and to concentrate on other more important things. But:

1. You are not that strong. You can definitely build a better strength/muscle foundation that will last the rest of your life. The health retirement fund. It is the easiest to do now, while you are still young. You can do much better.

2. But even if you think that the current level is enough and are only interested in maintaining, the way you do it is clearly suboptimal. Both gaining and maintaining would be easier, faster and more efficient with highter weights and fewer reps. You can also save time because you can do fewer sets in order to get the same maintenance effect. Alternatively, you can keep the same sets/time, but actually progress (or do it faster) instead of staying at the same place. Same cost, bigger psyout. This is the result of doing the right things the right way, instead of giving up and doing something that feels nicer.

Cheers!

Re: Resistance training load does not determine hypertrophy

#286
post #244

I only scanned to article but did not see mention of the pre-trial condition of the subjects. Were they very new to resistance training? Or had they been doing it on a regular basis for a number of years? Because when you start out, doing just about anything is going to increase muscle mass

Untrained individuals. Typically University students.

Re: Resistance training load does not determine hypertrophy

#287

Why is this article showing up on New Year's Day like the flock of newbie gym customers attracted to the gym only to quit 30 days from now? Every year without fail. Let's ignore this article for a moment. Overall factors that REALLY matter building muscle: 1. Consistency - Working out each muscle group at least once a week....every week. 2. Diet - Making sure you are consuming enough protein in your diet, approximate…

All this advice is mostly harmless and not contraindicated, though some of it is incorrect, but point 5 in regards to soreness is harmful advice. Soreness is not a goal and does not indicate anything other than that you did a lot of eccentric lifting to which you were not recently adapted. Soreness means you waited longer than what was necessary to exercise that muscle group again. If you are getting sore beyond the…

+1. Point number 5 is probably the worst part of their post.

Beginners should focus on form, consistency, and linear progression of weight. If you can stand the boredom do the exact same program for a year. Probably 2-3 full body workouts that hit each body part twice.

For intermediate+, hitting a body part once a week is suboptimal for most. People who care about results and progression/growth should be progressing from 5 up to 20 hard sets per muscle per week across the span of a few years. (Compounds hit multiple, so it's not necessarily 20 hard times the number of muscles!) What's "hard"? in the 0-2 RIR range, ideally some to failure. Most people do not know what 0RIR is until they actually go to failure on a weight, compute their 1RM and start to use the computed reps/weight load. For many people "0 RIR" is actually 3+ RIR because they stop themselves short. This is why I mostly only trust studies that take people to true failure (either an inability to move the weight any more, or a coach saying the person significantly broke form and must stop)

For advanced, as i understand it, they need to focus on weekly periodization like hitting 3RIR, 2RIR, 1RIR, 0RIR (test new 1RM), Recovery week kind of cycles. Plus more that advanced coaches can teach.

Re: Resistance training load does not determine hypertrophy

#288
post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a physiology research article published in a physiology journal, not a Tiktoken influencer peddling "get ripped fast" schemes. In an ironic twist, you then proceed to peddle your own. In a single paragraph you added more contentious "advice" than in the entire article you're dismissing. > Stop reading these studies thinking there is some optimal way! It's just hard work over time. "Hard work" and "learning ne…

To be charitable to both the article and the OP - his advice of “hard work over time” is still good advice. I think many people tend to get stuck in premature optimization, which can take the fun away and thus you end up quitting. I did that a few times, so it might be a me-thing. Nowadays I exercise 4x/week without really worrying about a strategy or about optimal protein intake etc. But then again, nowadays my goal…

Going further, you don't even need to count your reps or track how much weight you're lifting. Literally just do any exercise with any weight per muscle group to near failure for 2-5 sets. Rest the muscle groups you targeted the next 1-3 days, and be consistent every week. Bodyweight, free weights, machines, bands, kettlebells, etc. are all fine. That gets you 80-90% of the benefit with no stress.

Re: Resistance training load does not determine hypertrophy

#289
post #202
post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"approximately 1gram/pound of body weight" I believe this should be lean mass, not total mass. I think people tried to calibrate this metric since most people don't have scales that can measure composition... but if you're obese, you're going to be consuming more than you need to, which is counter productive if you're obese.

It's actually not, because nothing provides as much satiety as protein. Every calorie you get from protein reduces your cravings for food significantly more then the equivalent carb and fats. You still need to get over the initial insulin normalization though from reducing sugars. Nothing reduces that pain, no matter what you try.

Fiber is better for satiety than excessive protein (and has other benefits).

Re: Resistance training load does not determine hypertrophy

#290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>1. Consistency >5. Vary your workout The muscle "shock" broscience has been disproven many times: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35438660/ https://www.researchgate.net/publication/349502442_Does_Vary...

> The muscle "shock" broscience has been disproven many times: Variety isn't to shock or confuse the body, it's just to make sure you actually hit all the muscles in as many ways possible. Take your average push/pull gym rat to a yoga class or a climbing wall and they'll be more sore the next day than they've ever been before, because they'll activate muscles they didn't even know they had.

Yes, because the stimulus is novel if youve never done yoga before (e.g. a bunch of isometrics). That is not an indication of it being useful exercise for the outcomes of interest.
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