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2025 was a disaster for Windows 11

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Re: 2025 was a disaster for Windows 11

#281

Post by PufPufPuf »

i80and wrote: post #154
ksynwa wrote: post #142

For me the strange and unproductive direction Windows is going towards in encapsulated in the right-click menu in the file manager (Explorer). 11 has a shiny new menu that shows up when you right click. But it is a new coat of paint over the ones from 10 or before. Additional options from for example 7zip don't show up in it. You have to click "more options" at the bottom which them reveals the old menu. There is no…

This sort of thing has been a devolving disaster since the Settings App was included in Windows 8 as a partial replacement for the Control Panel. I'm not sure the current state of things, but as of the last time I used Windows, the sets of functionality remained only partially overlapping between the two different tools.

Oh but nowadays you have to access the old Control Panel only to access advanced options, like... setting the actions for lid close and power button, apparently.

Re: 2025 was a disaster for Windows 11

#282

Post by yndoendo »

p_ing wrote: post #184
akimbostrawman wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>OS/2 already proved out this path of [full] compatibility. it is not the 1980s anymore. majority of apps are for better or worse in the browser or cross platform with electron. Wine is merely a stepping stone for adoption because some software compatibility is a hard requirement for user to even considered another platform as an alternative, without these user there won't be any native development to begin with prov…

As a developer, why target Linux in all it's permutations with an unstable ABI when I can target the only stable Linux ABI -- Win32? If WINE fills the gap (and it largely does), there's zero reason to create native Linux builds. That's simply more bugs and more headaches for devs.

That is a subjective statement. We are moving our software off Windows to Linux hosting for our products. Microsoft has made Windows hostile to the embedded market. They are are pushing a Microsoft account over local with their IoT while plugging the hacks too.

Re: 2025 was a disaster for Windows 11

#283

Post by hulitu »

estimator7292 wrote: post #218
p_ing wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're correct, and those are likely all little-used in the grand scheme of Windows users (MBR -> GPT for certain).

Waving it away as little-used features is not an excuse, it's the entire reason things got this way. That's why we have layers upon layers of half baked UI with "only" the controls that "everyone" needs. Because those rationalizations are wrong and this is the result.

> That's why we have layers upon layers of half baked UI with "only" the controls that "everyone" needs.

But this is the future. Layers over layers of abstraction. The main idea is to make the attacker give up.

Re: 2025 was a disaster for Windows 11

#284

Post by hulitu »

wwweston wrote: post #151
ksynwa wrote: post #142

For me the strange and unproductive direction Windows is going towards in encapsulated in the right-click menu in the file manager (Explorer). 11 has a shiny new menu that shows up when you right click. But it is a new coat of paint over the ones from 10 or before. Additional options from for example 7zip don't show up in it. You have to click "more options" at the bottom which them reveals the old menu. There is no…

I’d be willing to bet that behind a change like this is a certain amount of data showing that the removed options weren’t used that frequently, and a stakeholder decision that this must mean that they should be demoted. And it’s data driven. Makes for a nice bullet point in a report. Most users don’t miss it, on stakeholders can tell themselves that those that you are a minority who don’t really matter for one reason…

> I’d be willing to bet that behind a change like this is a certain amount of data showing that the removed options weren’t used that frequently,

On a normal OS you have to change usual settings exactly once.

Re: 2025 was a disaster for Windows 11

#286

Post by hulitu »

estimator7292 wrote: post #220
12_throw_away wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> data showing that the removed options weren’t used that frequently [...] Most users don’t miss it Um, I am very skeptical that Microsoft's KPIs have this level of alignment with actual user workflows.

You really should assume that Microsoft knows exactly what you do on their machine.

They know _what_ you do. They don't know _why_ you do it.

Re: 2025 was a disaster for Windows 11

#287

Post by hulitu »

mmcnl wrote: post #219
ksynwa wrote: post #142

For me the strange and unproductive direction Windows is going towards in encapsulated in the right-click menu in the file manager (Explorer). 11 has a shiny new menu that shows up when you right click. But it is a new coat of paint over the ones from 10 or before. Additional options from for example 7zip don't show up in it. You have to click "more options" at the bottom which them reveals the old menu. There is no…

I actually don't mind this at all. These days the norm seems to be to drop features just because it's more convenient. I think this hybrid approach is not bad at all: the new menu is more aesthetically pleasing and consistent from a UX perspective, and if you really need something that is not there yet you can always use the old menu. For all its faults I think it's strange to criticize Microsoft for maintaining back…

> is more aesthetically pleasing and consistent from a UX perspective,

It is a combination of a vertical and orizontal menu. Something like Edge with horizontal and vertical tabs in the same window

Re: 2025 was a disaster for Windows 11

#288

Post by p_ing »

yndoendo wrote: post #282
p_ing wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a developer, why target Linux in all it's permutations with an unstable ABI when I can target the only stable Linux ABI -- Win32? If WINE fills the gap (and it largely does), there's zero reason to create native Linux builds. That's simply more bugs and more headaches for devs.

That is a subjective statement. We are moving our software off Windows to Linux hosting for our products. Microsoft has made Windows hostile to the embedded market. They are are pushing a Microsoft account over local with their IoT while plugging the hacks too.

It's difficult to compare embedded to desktop. It's not a market Windows does well today with the available alternatives. And yeah, if you're embedded, by definition you're resource constrained so running Wine makes less sense.

Not so with run-of-the-mill desktop software, games or otherwise.

Re: 2025 was a disaster for Windows 11

#289

Post by hulitu »

t0mas88 wrote: post #264
thewebguyd wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> except for the fact that it is aesthetically more "modern" to its detriment. And also much, much slower. The old context menu is nearly instant even when stuffed with extensions. When the new one is full of extensions, it takes full seconds to load the entire menu. You get a partial load, then the extensions pop in (and of course pushes elements down/up so now you misclick). I don't even know how anyone could exper…

Windows 10/11 UX is very slow in general. Combined with Intel mobile CPUs of the last few years running much hotter compared to Apple M models makes for terrible laptops. Lots of fan noise with a sluggish UI doesn't feel anywhere near a Macbook Air, even an M1. While full power raw CPU performance may actually be very close and the Intel based laptops typically cheaper.

> Windows 10/11 UX is very slow in general.

Drawing gray rectangles is a very resource intensive operation. It is a wonder how a Pentium was able to draw also a 3D border around the rectangle.

There were some sick people who, in 4 Megs of RAM were also letting you choose colors while presenting a Win10/11 interface (Apollo) but those were some heretics.

Re: 2025 was a disaster for Windows 11

#290

Post by Wowfunhappy »

odie5533 wrote: post #233
p_ing wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would expect Microsoft to relegate little used features to CLI rather than figure out how to integrate them into the UX.

Depends if they want their OS to be easy to use with wide appeal like macOS, or a CLI nightmare like Arch.

Somehow macOS only has one System Settings app. (They did admittedly make a mess of it lately, but in an entirely different way than Windows.) And yes, they relegate a lot of advanced stuff to the Terminal.
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