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I'm returning my Framework 16

yorickpeterse.com

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Re: I'm returning my Framework 16

#281

Post by fwipsy »

YorickPeterse wrote: post #60
Normal_gaussian wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm using an OLED X1 Carbon right now in the UK. I use it all the time in low light. I just turned all the lights off (even the Christmas tree) and ran through a handful of usage situations and couldn't see any issues. I turned some lights on and did the same, I couldn't see any issues. I asked Claude, and got told to do the finger test, and that is barely perceptible. I then used my phone to record the screen and ye…

I probably should've done a better job at clarifying this, but my issue with OLEDs isn't just that (at least historically) they tend to be too bright even at lower brightness, but also the other issues they come with such as burn-in and text potentially looking less pleasant compared to IPSs displays. Burn-in is probably my biggest concern here, especially since it really seems to be a case of winning the lottery or…

Burn-out probably depends on the model, not a lottery, but shouldn't be a major concern for typical usage patterns in recent models. The text issue is caused by a pentile subpixel layout which are no longer common. I love OLED for low-light evening usage because IPS displays always have some backlight bleed, whereas OLEDs can display true blacks/pure warm tones which I find much more pleasant in the evenings. IMO power consumption is the only major downside of OLED displays for general-purpose laptops and phones.

Re: I'm returning my Framework 16

#282

Post by starkparker »

YorickPeterse wrote: post #62
starkparker wrote: post #12

> One option is the Framework 13 given that it solves at least some issues I have with the Framework 16 (e.g. it's bulkiness and inability to lower the brightness further), but it also seems to share many of the other issues such as poor speaker quality and (at least from hat I could find) worse heat regulation, and a (possibly) worse battery. The speakers are bad, but as a 13 owner I don't see or understand the heat…

I literally mention the reason in the article in the "Configuration" section ( https://yorickpeterse.com/articles/im-returning-my-framework... )...

Yeah, and as others have noted here in the comments, it doesn't make sense.

You don't want bulk, but you chose the bulkiest option. You want a display with more even brightness and colors, but you chose the model intentionally built around a more refresh-performant but uneven display. You either don't care about or didn't bother measuring GPU performance, but you chose the model designed entirely around novel GPU features.

You cite unsourced reports of 13s having anti-properties, but it reads like you didn't research either newer 13s or the 16 at all.

Re: I'm returning my Framework 16

#283

Post by jimmaswell »

justin66 wrote: post #94
comte7092 wrote: post #8

I appreciate the authors thoughtful review here, but I can’t help but be frustrated by the constant lack of understanding of the core value proposition of framework both in this post and in many comments here on hn. Frequently the author brings up that for 2,000 euros they expect a premium experience, but no where is there an evaluation of the value granted by upgradability and repeatability of the machine, and only…

> I think ultimately what frustrates me is that people don’t consider the ability to repair or upgrade your machine part of a “premium” experience, but that’s is just something I have to accept. I think it is unfortunate that our consumerist culture places so little value on it though. Buying one of the original Frameworks and a Macbook Air at roughly the same time made me realize how little I actually care about upg…

Some people around me prolesytize these modern Macbooks endlessly but I don't quite get it. I've tried them but I still love my Framework 16 to bits and I'd take it any day of the week. The Macbooks are great machines, and one thing I can say in their favor is the battery life is phenomenal, but I prefer my Framework's aesthetics and feel - it feels more like I'm holding something I've worked on and made my own vs just bought, I prefer the shiny metal over the dull gray of the Macbooks, the keyboard and trackpad are just as good (and I love the rgb pad I have in place of a numpad), and taking it apart/replacing modules just feels so cool. I've also saved those friends various times by lending an expansion card, usually usb-A.

Re: I'm returning my Framework 16

#284

Post by jimmaswell »

trinsic2 wrote: post #195
osigurdson wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree. I want rock solid Linux compatibility with mac like hardware quality / battery life and a Thinkpad like toughness and keyboard. I don't really need it to be upgradable as long as it lasts 8 years.

IMHO I dont think people are considering what you lose when you cant upgrade, You get locked in to a device artificially created life cycle that's dictated by the manufacturer. I understand where you are coming from, I guess it just makes me sad to see more and more people moving away from tech that is less in their control. And i consider upgradability and modularity and important aspect of that.

My partner with a Macbook works on AI and has told me how great Apple silicon is, and their Macbook would run so many things so well.. except they don't have enough RAM and there's no way to upgrade it..

Re: I'm returning my Framework 16

#285

Post by pech0rin »

I ran linux for 15 years on a range of different machines. Desktop the most successfully. For laptops I tried everything but once I switched to a mac I’ve never gone back. The hardware is at least twice as good as any other laptop.

I’ve seen framework getting a lot of mind share recently. Especially with DHH singing their praises. I have come to loathe apple software over the years but can’t get over terrible build quality.

I thought framework was supposed to be the premium linux option but after reading this it looks same quality as all those windows turned linux machines.

Re: I'm returning my Framework 16

#286

Post by sillystuff »

inatreecrown2 wrote: post #250
sillystuff wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the brightness issue, if you are running X: allow dimming display beyond normal max dimming: xrandr --output eDP --brightness 0.5 restore to normal brightness range: xrandr --output eDP --brightness 1 (substitute the actual output name for your display instead of eDP; run xrandr without args to list)

nice! didn't know about that. Thanks!

Someone was upset about it. The comment was down voted?

Try to be helpful.

Re: I'm returning my Framework 16

#287

Post by Octoth0rpe »

IshKebab wrote: post #209
Octoth0rpe wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The use case is to replace an existing working stick with a higher capacity stick, not just for repairs.

How often are you actually going to do that though? My desktop from 12 years ago has 16GB of RAM and Apple only just upgraded their base specs to 16GB. Ok granted my new desktops have 128GB, but that's massive overkill so I can have like 12 VSCode's open. For normal people 16GB has been the sensible amount for at least a decade.

I tend to agree. But some people at least want the option. I would also say only in 2025 has that shifted for me as well. I've been perfectly fine with 16gb of ram for at least a decade, but local LLMs have me wanting for more.

Re: I'm returning my Framework 16

#288

Post by chickensong »

doug_durham wrote: post #158
chickensong wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not calling out the upgrade ability enough. Most people comparing the price of a Framework seem to miss the long view. After the initial purchase, every upgrade is cheap compared to buying an entire laptop over and over again. Bonus that you can repurpose or sell the old mainboard. There are better laptops than Framework when compared as one-to-one at a certain point in time, but that's missing the point of Fr…

The point is that a laptop is a tool that you use every day. It needed to be reliable and very usable. Framework is compromising on usability in the service of upgradeability. It seems like you can have refined tool, or a repairable one.

Framework 13 11th gen has been my daily driver for years. It's reliable and very usable. Is it a $4k MBP? No. But compared to the bulk of laptops out there, one might even say it's refined I suppose. It's a sleek 3lb aluminum laptop. Like I said, there nicer laptops out there, but the Framework is a very capable tool.

Re: I'm returning my Framework 16

#289

Post by ekianjo »

I think if you compare on price alone, yeah there are quality tradeoffs when you purchase a Framework. They don't get everything right, and often an equivalent model from Lenovo or HP is going to feel superior. But... buying Framework is putting a stake into having somewhat open laptops that you can service and upgrade yourself. Lenovo laptops have become less and less reparable (following the MacBook formula) and it's very important a company like Framework continues to exist.

At the same time, this kind of user feedback is very important, to help Framework identify the areas where they can or have to improve. Framework is a very reactive company and while hardware takes time, they typically address issues in their next models.

Re: I'm returning my Framework 16

#290

Post by conception »

zamadatix wrote: post #105
conception wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also buying a laptop that’s not subsidized by ads and shovelware.

Please subsidize it by ads and shovelware, I'm not going to use the factory image anyways.

Take heart Steve Jobs’ warning. If/When ads/shovelware are what are bringing in the money then they are the ones that end up running the company.
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