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How getting richer made teenagers less free

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Re: How getting richer made teenagers less free

#281

Post by JuniperMesos »

Aeolun wrote: post #218
throwaway732255 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Interestingly, I've heard from parents that many feel like they're both suffocating and feeling inadequate When my spouse and I were dating, we made fun of those “overly involved parents” who tried to live vicariously through their kids and over-scheduled them. Since having kids, my spouse has (over a one year period) put our 5 year old in: T-ball, swimming, dance, theater, Sunday school, church, soccer, gymnastics…

Hmm, I’m fairly certain the ‘having children’ part is what triggers total collapse of the previous worldview. My spouse was adamant that we wouldn’t force our child to study excessively, but we’re at 7 years old and we have a 50cm stack of extra activities books that need to be worked through every morning and evening, in addition to the homework the school sets. It’s madness. The class teacher told me he’s not even…

Could you put your child in a different school that didn't do that?

Re: How getting richer made teenagers less free

#282

Post by JuniperMesos »

moffkalast wrote: post #261
lm28469 wrote: post #28

And it also creates permanent adulescents, scared of responsibilities, scared of commitment, scared of exploring. I've seen it countless times with teenagers in my family, they're overgrown babies.

28 is the new 18. The problem is nobody's getting any younger on the other side of life, so that's a decade of life lost.

There's already people explicitly working on anti-aging technology. We'll see what happens over the next few decades there.

Re: How getting richer made teenagers less free

#283

Post by CalRobert »

ninkendo wrote: post #258
CalRobert wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I lived in the US for thirty years. I’m American. I would be ECSTATIC if the US had one place like this. Best I can think of are maybe accidentally low car areas like Catalina island.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mackinac_Island (Not where I live, but it's in my state.)

Ah, good example. It would be nice to see more places built like this intentionally rather than accidentally.

Re: How getting richer made teenagers less free

#284

Post by insane_dreamer »

chiefalchemist wrote: post #276
insane_dreamer wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Generations that know nothing but comfort. Physical, perhaps. Mentally and emotionally? Not. The pressure to "swim or sink" and grab one of those increasingly precious "well paying jobs" or be flipping burgers is much higher than it was when I was a kid.

Yes, but the two go hand in hand. Michael Easter talks about it in The Comfort Crisis. He probably used a more technical term, but that term escapes me for the moment. In short, worry is relative. For example, we you have to focus on getting your next meal, minor things get no attention, no concern. Now eliminate the need to worry about food and the minor things get center stage. The point is, without anything signif…

Fair point, but this discussion has been comparing teenagers today with 40 years ago, not 100 or 140 years ago. Teens 40 years ago in the US at least were (with some exceptions) not worrying about where their next meal will come from.

Re: How getting richer made teenagers less free

#285

Post by insane_dreamer »

senordevnyc wrote: post #237
insane_dreamer wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand and worry about my kids the same age too. But the paradox I myself admit to is that those perceived dangers aren't new nor have they increased significantly since I was young in the 70s -- other than scooters being new -- and yet I, and pretty much every other kid, had tons of freedom and was just fine. So it's mostly about the fears in my head, not the reality on the ground.

Yeah, but “I made it just fine” is poor logic to me. This would be true for kids who grew up with parents smoking, mom drinking while pregnant, no seatbelts, etc. They were mostly fine too.

It's not just me who made it fine; my entire generation did.

> This would be true for kids who grew up with parents smoking

not really, given the number of people with lung cancer then compared to today

> no seatbelts

again, the number of fatalities was much higher then

Re: How getting richer made teenagers less free

#286

Post by honkycat »

throwaway732255 wrote: post #103
TrackerFF wrote: post #15

I grew up in the late 80s/early 90s, and came from a rural place with a lot of poverty and at best working class people. We'd be outside all day long - being inside was considered a privilege. Weekdays and weekends. Decades later, most of my peers have middle-class jobs. Their kids are barely outside. Their parents are involved with them from morning to evening, or chauffeuring them between sports and other extracurr…

> Interestingly, I've heard from parents that many feel like they're both suffocating and feeling inadequate When my spouse and I were dating, we made fun of those “overly involved parents” who tried to live vicariously through their kids and over-scheduled them. Since having kids, my spouse has (over a one year period) put our 5 year old in: T-ball, swimming, dance, theater, Sunday school, church, soccer, gymnastics…

My parents made me do everything, and were so fucking mean about everything, I ended up missing out on the things I actually enjoyed b/c I didn't want yet another thing to get yelled at about.

Specific: guitar and music

To be fair: part of it was to be rid of me and to not have to watch me.

Beauty pagents? Go take a good long look in the mirror. That is pathetic. Is that what you want your kids to value? Passivity? Whatever the fuck beauty pagents encourage?

At least dance is a skill.

Re: How getting richer made teenagers less free

#287

Post by renewiltord »

HexPhantom wrote: post #159
zkmon wrote: post #107

As children (not even teens), we were allowed to roam the farms around the village and swim in any farm-well we like entire day in the hot sun. Jump from trees into the well, chase animals, walk barefoot in the in midday of 40 deg C of summer holidays. We used to get random thorns in the feet. The kid would pluck it out by surgical poking with steel pin in his own foot. That's what I call as rich childhood.

The tragedy is that we responded to the real dangers of the past by trying to eliminate all risk, and in doing so stripped away most of the texture that made childhood feel real

We did not try to eliminate all risk. That is a lie. We increased risk by allowing criminals to go on the street and then criminalized permitting your child to be a victim.

The risk remains. We just added another risk.

If I let my 6 year old daughter cross King St in San Francisco and a car illegally turning right while she is in the crosswalk kills her, who will society prosecute harder? Me or the driver? I think I know.

If a sex offender who has been repeatedly released from jail by a judge who feels that “this time, his fourth time, it’ll be different” assaults my daughter society will judge me not him.

I might lose any surviving children, presumably for willful neglect. And you will go out and say that incarceration is bad or whatever. Don’t give me this bullshit. “Try to eliminate all risk”? No.

You just decided you want to punish the risk-takers. That’s very different. “Crime is because of poverty”. Yeah, dude, the reason that Bill Gene Hobbs goes around touching little girls is because he’s poor. Give me a break. “Try to eliminate all risk”. Pull the other one. Obviously the crime rates look great, you don’t convict anyone anymore. No crimes committed.

Re: How getting richer made teenagers less free

#288

Post by 4gotunameagain »

em-bee wrote: post #240
YaeGh8Vo wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's striking is the helplessness that seeps through your message. As if you had zero control over what happens. You're just a bystander watching what happens to your children. It's time for you to wake up, and start exercising your own authority.

you are not married, are you? that's not how this works. while they certainly need to talk, and not just once, but continuously, you don't have the authority to change your partners behavior. you need to discuss your feelings about this matter and come to a consensus about the activities and the goals for your child. it won't be easy. if i were in this position, i can't imagine what i would do. i feel even stronger t…

Don't forget that there are many indians lurking hackernews. With their particular views about women.

Re: How getting richer made teenagers less free

#289

Post by philipallstar »

ares623 wrote: post #265
leetrout wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Two have sadly taken their own lives despite seemingly good FAANG careers Sorry to hear that. Unfortunately I think we have way over indexed on "success" being tied to money and seeking these careers at companies that drive people to exhaustion and let the competitive environment drive everyone harder and harder with a ratchet effect.

IMO it’s less about success but a lack of reliable safety nets. Absent a good supporting environment, what choice does an individual have than to maximise their own outcome.

Do countries with reliable safety nets have lower rates of taking one's own life? What does reliable mean for a safety net?

Re: How getting richer made teenagers less free

#290

Post by FromTheSteppe »

throwaway732255 wrote: post #103
TrackerFF wrote: post #15

I grew up in the late 80s/early 90s, and came from a rural place with a lot of poverty and at best working class people. We'd be outside all day long - being inside was considered a privilege. Weekdays and weekends. Decades later, most of my peers have middle-class jobs. Their kids are barely outside. Their parents are involved with them from morning to evening, or chauffeuring them between sports and other extracurr…

> Interestingly, I've heard from parents that many feel like they're both suffocating and feeling inadequate When my spouse and I were dating, we made fun of those “overly involved parents” who tried to live vicariously through their kids and over-scheduled them. Since having kids, my spouse has (over a one year period) put our 5 year old in: T-ball, swimming, dance, theater, Sunday school, church, soccer, gymnastics…

I was raised in such a house. This happened because my mother was an underachiever, and also because my father and grandparents were dead so she was unchallenged doing this.

But you are alive my friend. Don't let your child still have nightmares, regrets, and feelings of constantly not being enough in their 30s. If your child does'nt have a childhood she can never become an adult.

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