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If AI replaces workers, should it also pay taxes?

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Re: If AI replaces workers, should it also pay taxes?

#281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a capitalist system, capital makes the rules for everyone. This is why capital earns more than labour. System working as intended.

A capitalist system is built on the idea that holders of capital actually deploy that capital, rather than horde it. If capital holders don’t actually deploy that capital and compete with each other, then you don’t have a capitalist system anymore. You have a feudal system, where asset holders extract resources through rents, rather than capital deployment and risk taking.

Can you point me to the data showing how much capital is horded?

Re: If AI replaces workers, should it also pay taxes?

#282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If anything, US AI companies will be eating the lunches of workers from all over the world. It'll be like a service export.

Highly automated and connected business infrastructure will make replacing first world jobs the easiest, but yes as automation spreads, the spigot of job replacement will flow to every corner of the globe.

That's not the problem. The problem is that the revenue will flow to the US, and when those US companies are taxed, this will at most pay for an UBI for US Americans only. Which will mean the US gets very rich while the other countries get very poor, because there is no large AI company to tax.

Re: If AI replaces workers, should it also pay taxes?

#284
I feel like the USA is not prepared for the 50% unemployment rate it's looking at when the value of labor in many industries drops to pennies. Other countries with safety nets and socialist programs can probably switch to a UBI style economy or simply communism, but the USA is so allergic to such things I don't see anything other than chaos and collapse.

And they have allllll those guns too...

Re: If AI replaces workers, should it also pay taxes?

#285
post #184

No, not the AI. Just the owner of means of production like AI. The fact that capital owners successfully avoid contributing to the financing of our states and social systems is, in my view, one of the fundamental problems of our time.

In essence...

Tax not paid by ultra wealthy goes back into he system as loans that extract interest that in turn is used to buy assets sold to pay for interest, those are then rented back to the system to extract more interest.

In essence by allowing no tax to be paid by the ultra wealthy, we facilitate the death of the middle class and transfer of everything to the very few - with mathematical precision.

Ultimately we need to ask ourselves why we have a society, what's it's purpose.

For the few or the many ?

Re: If AI replaces workers, should it also pay taxes?

#286

Interesting how this argument is only popping now that technology is threatening white collar workers. Automation has been shoving blue collars out of the job market for a century. A single farmer can do with his machinery today what took a dozen of people just 50 years ago. Manufacturing has been super automated long ago. Even in commerce automated checkout has been replacing workers for more than a decade. In any c…

What makes you think this argument is popping? Or that it's only being discussed now, because of 1 article on a domain I've never heard of?

ElPais is the most important (by number of readers) Spanish newspaper.

Re: If AI replaces workers, should it also pay taxes?

#287

I feel like the USA is not prepared for the 50% unemployment rate it's looking at when the value of labor in many industries drops to pennies. Other countries with safety nets and socialist programs can probably switch to a UBI style economy or simply communism, but the USA is so allergic to such things I don't see anything other than chaos and collapse. And they have allllll those guns too...

We’ll see. I don’t understand how anyone can view this as an inevitably in the short/medium term, yet that’s how a lot of people are talking. There’s really nothing to suggest this change is imminent.

Re: If AI replaces workers, should it also pay taxes?

#288
post #184

No, not the AI. Just the owner of means of production like AI. The fact that capital owners successfully avoid contributing to the financing of our states and social systems is, in my view, one of the fundamental problems of our time.

> The fact that capital owners successfully avoid contributing to the financing of our states and social systems is, in my view, one of the fundamental problems of our time.

Are you talking about taxing unrealized capital gains?

Because for the situation where capital is directly replacing labor, the income generation is taxed regardless of the whether it’s generated by a human or machine.

If I hire people to make and sell hot dogs, they pay taxes on their wages. If I build an automated hot dog vending machine, I still pay taxes on the profits of selling those same hot dogs.

One can’t spend any of the money until it becomes personal assets. So what is not being taxed?

If I keep them in the company, I pay corporate tax on profits (22%) for retained earnings. And then I’d have to pay dividend tax (either 15% or 20%) atop those retained earnings to pay them out to myself as income. Or I pay myself a salary and pay regular income tax on the full amount.

Due to our progressive tax brackets and double taxation of dividends, both options end up with larger tax rates than when dealing purely with low wage human labor. We as a society collect more in taxes from one high income earner than multiple low income ones.

Re: If AI replaces workers, should it also pay taxes?

#289
post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure I'm following your thought on capital gains tax. Capital Gain tax occurs when you sell an asset for more than you paid for it. AI (software) is not an asset, and I'm not sure how you'd sell it. Computers and robots are assets (although they typically depreciate not appreciate.) Either way capital gains tax is applied to the asset not the productivity of the asset . The productivity in turn is taxed as pa…

The ownership of software absolutely is an asset. It’s Intellectual Property. What are you referring to?

[deleted]

Re: If AI replaces workers, should it also pay taxes?

#290

I feel like the USA is not prepared for the 50% unemployment rate it's looking at when the value of labor in many industries drops to pennies. Other countries with safety nets and socialist programs can probably switch to a UBI style economy or simply communism, but the USA is so allergic to such things I don't see anything other than chaos and collapse. And they have allllll those guns too...

Where does that UBI money come from if there are 50% fewer people paying taxes? That's the problem.
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