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DeepSeek uses banned Nvidia chips for AI model, report says

finance.yahoo.com

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Re: DeepSeek uses banned Nvidia chips for AI model, report says

#281

Post by jojobas »

vkou wrote: post #264
echelon wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the moral imperative of every country to optimize for its citizens' economic prospects. The CIA (and every other intelligence org.) is literally a weapon designed to operate in the grey area to fit the mandate of the policy makers and elected leadership. Many of the things they do are questionable or worse. In the case of the DoD, they do these things at the behest of democratically elected leadership. Of course…

> It's the moral imperative of every country to optimize for its citizens' economic prospects. Surely there are constraints on this, because otherwise, it would be the moral imperative of every country to enslave non-citizens for the benefit of (some subset of) citizens.

Slave labour is very inefficient. It was found to be more beneficial to lure non-citizens with temporary working visas.

Re: DeepSeek uses banned Nvidia chips for AI model, report says

#282

Post by jojobas »

drysine wrote: post #226
echelon wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the moral imperative of every country to optimize for its citizens' economic prospects. The CIA (and every other intelligence org.) is literally a weapon designed to operate in the grey area to fit the mandate of the policy makers and elected leadership. Many of the things they do are questionable or worse. In the case of the DoD, they do these things at the behest of democratically elected leadership. Of course…

>It's the moral imperative of every country to optimize for its citizens' economic prospects. Moral???

Any other motivation forfeiting citizens' interests are perceived as treason, therefore immoral, so yes.

Re: DeepSeek uses banned Nvidia chips for AI model, report says

#284

Post by xp84 »

rapind wrote: post #272
ignoramous wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes. The bans are export controls. These export controls increasingly look like "tax". The White House said the US government would take a 25 percent cut of the chip’s sales, similar to a deal with AMD and Nvidia earlier this year that allowed them to sell lower-powered AI chips to China while paying the US government 15 percent of the proceeds. > Using them in China is legal in China. Technically, yes. The CCP, th…

> Technically, yes. The CCP, though, wants to incentivize Chinese firms to use domestically-manufactured chips. This couldn’t be playing out better for Xi. Trump is China’s best president. I used to think Trump was clueless and being outplayed, but now I realize he’s just looting and couldn’t care less about protectionism or the American worker. Every single action from this administration can be explained by greed a…

> Every single action from this administration can be explained by greed and ego. I highly agree with you - and that’s coming from someone who can’t stand the Democrats[1]. Things like announcing all of a sudden that he opposes a merger when everybody knows Kushner is involved with a rival bid… it’s too obvious how much corruption is his very operating system. [1] (I didn’t vote for either candidate for President, but I’m not in a swing state so I’m not sorry)

Re: DeepSeek uses banned Nvidia chips for AI model, report says

#285

Post by rixed »

codyb wrote: post #229
yannyu wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The last time the world had multi-polarity, we had far more wars. Including the worst wars the world has ever seen. Citations? Simply saying that World War 1 happened during a time of multi-polarity is just begging the question. Multi-polarity of varying degrees has always been the case throughout human history, and often times single-polarity is achieved only through extreme violence.

American Hegemony or Pax Americana (post WWII until present) is the most peaceful period of human history, despite the myriad atrocities which have occurred during that period, from myriad different parties, including the USA itself A big reason for that, as far as I can tell, is that if one side has the USA on its side, they're basically unattackable for many places since the USA is so over powered militarily and ca…

I do not disagree with that assessment, but maybe one can hope that at some point we evolve past this "us versus them" mentality that we inherited from the savannah? If so, it's worth pushing for it.

Re: DeepSeek uses banned Nvidia chips for AI model, report says

#286

Post by xp84 »

platevoltage wrote: post #169
qoez wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Give me 1 reason why the USA, the (for now) leader of "the west", is morally superior to China?

I’ve got one. The US doesn’t mow down its citizens with tanks for protesting, and then perpetually suppress all discussion of the incident.

(Yes, there have been situations that are similar in theme, but they paw in comparison to that incident.)

Re: DeepSeek uses banned Nvidia chips for AI model, report says

#287

Post by rixed »

godsinhisheaven wrote: post #245
hearsathought wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The intent is there. The declaration of independence was written by one of the wealthiest slave owners in the country. "Moral imperative" was certainly not behind the american revolution. The economic interests of the elites were. There are no saints in politics. Just interests - mostly of the elites.

This is an extremely reductive take. Thomas Jefferson was a hero and a scholar! Think about the times he lived in, everyone lived under some sort of aristocratic monarchy, that was the norm. Certainly there were some economic interests at play in tge Revolution, but is it economically smart to declare independence from the most powerful empire of the day? Indeed, many of the "elites" at the time sided with the Britis…

Both the most vulgar and selfish interest, and the most principled passions, seems to play a role in history at different times. The most important contributing factor, though, is selfish interest of large groups of people, because the sun of it's many little influences do not cancel out, unlike the actions of principled actors. In exceptional times, good intends are allowed to take the front seat just as long as necessary, by the many behind the scene who will silently weight toward the prompt reestablishment of "business as usual".

Re: DeepSeek uses banned Nvidia chips for AI model, report says

#288

Post by jrm4 »

echelon wrote: post #157
ComputerGuru wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s bandits all the way down, so adding a little smuggling to that doesn’t surprise me. Implying it’s *morally* wrong for a Chinese company to bypass US sanctions is hilarious. You really say that with a straight face when even the president admits this is only protectionism?

It's the moral imperative of every country to optimize for its citizens' economic prospects. The CIA (and every other intelligence org.) is literally a weapon designed to operate in the grey area to fit the mandate of the policy makers and elected leadership. Many of the things they do are questionable or worse. In the case of the DoD, they do these things at the behest of democratically elected leadership. Of course…

That first sentence feels like one of those fake-deep things that sounds important, but can effectively be used to justify about anything?

Which is to say, in a world that's -- you know -- a society; not screwing over the other guy is often, if not usually, a good way to "optimize your own citizens economic prospects," too.

Re: DeepSeek uses banned Nvidia chips for AI model, report says

#289

Post by goatlover »

jojobas wrote: post #282
drysine wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It's the moral imperative of every country to optimize for its citizens' economic prospects. Moral???

Any other motivation forfeiting citizens' interests are perceived as treason, therefore immoral, so yes.

So for example addressing climate change might be perceived as treason if it gets in the way of optimizing economic interests?
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