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BMW PHEV: Safety fuse replacement is extremely expensive

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Re: BMW PHEV: Safety fuse replacement is extremely expensive

#281

Post by jacquesm »

jinzo wrote: post #261
jacquesm wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s a fuse plus guarantee plus liability. This is BMW we're talking about. Their guarantees are worth absolutely nothing if my experience is anything to go by and them accepting liability is not something you should have to pay 4K for if other brands can do the same thing under $100.

I'm sure it depends on market, but I also know 100% that if they will certify the battery as safe, and then you get electrocuted when entering your car because the battery was not safe - they will be on the hook, in all developed markets. No one else, that cares about people safety, do the same thing for under $100. Even Tesla, that almost completely disregards any safety - be it "Full Self Driving" or "let's just ch…

Given that I've tried to hold BMW to their warranty and was shafted I would not bet on that.

Re: BMW PHEV: Safety fuse replacement is extremely expensive

#282

Post by torginus »

chihuahua wrote: post #59
marssaxman wrote: post #15

> BMW has over-engineered the They have over-engineered the everything , because that is what BMW does. That is what they have been about for the last thirty years.

People get upset when a BMW is expensive to repair, but they're misunderstanding the sophisticated German engineering. You're not supposed to repair it. You're supposed to throw it away and buy a new one.

I missed the memo when putting everything together on one impossible to repair PCB and then gluing/sealing it permanently became 'sophisticated German engineering' instead of bottom-shelf junk.

Re: BMW PHEV: Safety fuse replacement is extremely expensive

#283

Post by jacquesm »

lazide wrote: post #239
jacquesm wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the people that replace fuses are aware of the potential issues around them. The article - which I'm sure you've read so don't take this as commentary on your comment - details that in other electric vehicles, for instance Tesla this is handled quite differently: "While Tesla’s pyrofuse costs €11 and the BMS reset is around 50€, allowing the car to be safely restored, BMW’s approach borders on illogical engin…

[flagged]

I'm getting a bit tired of your low grade trolling so welcome to my block list.

Re: BMW PHEV: Safety fuse replacement is extremely expensive

#284

Post by knob »

bux93 wrote: post #201
marssaxman wrote: post #15

> BMW has over-engineered the They have over-engineered the everything , because that is what BMW does. That is what they have been about for the last thirty years.

Hard to maintain systems, whether it's hardware or software, are underengineered if anything.

I love this take. Thanks for sharing it. Puts into words why sometimes I can spend a lot of time thinking about how to improve a system: trying to save future effort.

Re: BMW PHEV: Safety fuse replacement is extremely expensive

#285

Post by hydrogen7800 »

inferiorhuman wrote: post #62
0_____0 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After reading the blog post I had the same thought. Doing an oil change on my F650GS motorcycle required removing the plastics, draining the oil from both the top and bottom of the motorcycle, removing a plate on the side of the engine after install the BMW specified oil redirection funnel, extracting the filter and reinstalling. The oil funnel had a legit BMW part number. Most of us either just made a mess or used a…

You win some, you lose some. Comparable process on my E46 and E39: Drain plug out (potentially flipping a little dust cover out of the way). Drain plug in. Stand up because everything else happens up top. Unscrew filter housing. Replace filter element. Replace filter housing. Fill.

Hello, fellow E39 owner. Mine is my first BMW, and for all I hear about over-engineering from them, this has been a pretty straightforward car to work on. As "complicated" as the suspension is, for example, it was pretty simple to replace everything. I suppose that reputation has been earned from their more modern cars.

Re: BMW PHEV: Safety fuse replacement is extremely expensive

#286

Post by eep_social »

rjsw wrote: post #255
beAbU wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's just because literally everything is an optional add-on on a BMW. So many BMWs out there on the road without the indicators package because the owner cheaped out when buying it.

I didn't even know that was an option, never seen one that had it fitted.

My understanding is that the hardware is always installed but the dealer will not fill the liquid reservoirs unless the customer specifically requests (and pays) for it.

Re: BMW PHEV: Safety fuse replacement is extremely expensive

#287

Post by idiotsecant »

jinzo wrote: post #269
kristjank wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fuses are necessary on any electrical system, and especially in a car, which is an electrical shitshow (floating ground, high-voltage and high-frequency interference), fuses blow all the time. Granted, usually on a well-maintained and new car it happens very rarely, but saying that it's a catastrophic and concerning event is dumb.

This is a pyrofuse, it does not blow with overcurrent as regular fuse, but blows in the same way airbags blow - when detecting a crash. We can debate if they blow too quick, but if you are designing this system - where and truly lives can be in danger, you would probably err on the side of caution too.

Pyrofuse will definitely blow on overcurrent.

Re: BMW PHEV: Safety fuse replacement is extremely expensive

#288

Post by CyberDildonics »

inferiorhuman wrote: post #104
CyberDildonics wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I can tell the Chinese are targeting the bottom of the market with cars that are essentially disposable. What actual information or data leads you to believe this? All wheel drive, 375mi range and sub 4 second 0-60mph is disposable to you? I'm guessing your car is disposable by comparison. https://www.byd.com/us/car/han-ev

Disposable as in unrepairable or difficult to repair, not disposable as in slow. Honestly, aside from people making bad faith arguments who would use disposable to imply slow? Do me a favor and stop responding to my comments. Thanks.

Disposable as in unrepairable

Again, what information or source or evidence leads you think this?

Re: BMW PHEV: Safety fuse replacement is extremely expensive

#289

Post by Glawen »

jinzo wrote: post #261
jacquesm wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s a fuse plus guarantee plus liability. This is BMW we're talking about. Their guarantees are worth absolutely nothing if my experience is anything to go by and them accepting liability is not something you should have to pay 4K for if other brands can do the same thing under $100.

I'm sure it depends on market, but I also know 100% that if they will certify the battery as safe, and then you get electrocuted when entering your car because the battery was not safe - they will be on the hook, in all developed markets. No one else, that cares about people safety, do the same thing for under $100. Even Tesla, that almost completely disregards any safety - be it "Full Self Driving" or "let's just ch…

Do you realise how difficult it is to get "electrocuted" in a battery powered vehicle ? I suggest you document yourself on the matter.

The only real issue in reality is thermal runaway

Re: BMW PHEV: Safety fuse replacement is extremely expensive

#290

Post by close04 »

entrox wrote: post #194
close04 wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article and comment aren't debating whether the fuse plays an essential role. There's no reason to make the process of fixing the issue after a minor incident expensive, extremely convoluted, and very prone to error. Making it a very complicated and expensive fix isn't what's saving your rescuer or mechanic from getting electrocuted while working around your car.

> There's no reason to make the process of fixing the issue after a minor incident expensive, extremely convoluted, and very prone to error. Yes there is. Either nobody is engineering towards that aspect or it is a conscious decision, deliberating between two different buckets: bill-of-material cost per unit and estimated impact on your warranty & goodwill budget. Whatever is deemed to be cheaper will win. Source: I…

> BMW refuses to provide training access for ISTA usage

Refusing access to training isn't a BoM issue by any means. Neither is a repair process that's so error prone that it can do even more damage to the car. We are surrounded by evidence that manufacturers in every field are taking decisions that are hostile towards their customers in the chase for profits. With the rise of EVs with far fewer moving parts needing constant maintenance, the manufacturers had to shift to different revenue streams, like killing repairability and locking everything behind manufacturer approval.

This is a professional shop voicing the complaints, not a random guy trying to do a fix on the side of the road.

Imagine someone told you they work for Apple and the reason everything is soldered, glued, stacked in a way it will never survive disassembly, and every bit of software and hardware in the device needs the manufacturer's blessing to be replaced or just keep running is because it was cheaper and safer this way.

> it becomes a very tricky problem to solve.

It was a solved problem for everything mechanical where locking it down or preventing people from learning wasn't really an option. How did it become tricky again just now when we deal with far more flexible software and possibility to lockdown?

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